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  1. #11
    Senior Member MerkW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Well, except for his idea of nailing C to the frame of reference. That was a totally new-and-different idea, really a serious intuitive leap. That sort of thing isn't generally typical of INTPs.

    That idea wasn't just thinking outside the box--it redefined the box.
    Such is typical for xNxPs (and also xNxJs, in fact) in general. If you have read any biographies about Einstein, you will know that there is an extremely slim chance that Einstein was an extrovert.
    "The mathematician's patterns, like the painter's or the poet's must be beautiful; the ideas like the colours or the words, must fit together in a harmonious way. Beauty is the first test: there is no permanent place in the world for ugly mathematics..." - G.H. Hardy

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  2. #12
    Member Hypomanic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maha Raj View Post
    Reading about intuition I found this statement at greenwikilight.

    Einstein summarised the Extraverted Intuition standpoint best when he said, "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result."

    Could anyone explain whether or not Einstein's statement is in disfavor with Extraverted Intuition?
    No, it's in favor of it. Ne is doing something different. Si is being traditional. He was actually disfavoring Si in that statement, from a MBTI perspective.

  3. #13
    Member Maha Raj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypomanic View Post
    No, it's in favor of it. Ne is doing something different. Si is being traditional. He was actually disfavoring Si in that statement, from a MBTI perspective.
    You are right. Si being traditional and unwilling to change, comes close to the characteristics of OCD.

    There are many great people with Ne than Einstein himself. For example, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Edison, Alexander the great, Socrates.

    I personally believe that ENTPs are more likely to develop psychological problems such as OCD, which i personally had and treated with Paxil. Ne with OCD is definitely insane because they will do the same thing again again without logically thinking (introverted thinking). But you see, ENTPs have Ti as their second most used function (or sometimes they use is even more of it, when they are isolated themselves). Therefore, they will get rid of their stupid, illogical lifestyle on the run.

    I think people with Ne are most likely to get stuck with some psychological problems such as OCD.

    Also people with Ne are most likely to be extraverted throughout their life than developing "introverted" functions such as introverted feelings and introverted sensation. I think it depends of their "wealth". For example, born-rich ENTPs are les likely to develop "introverted functions" than born-poor ENTPs. When born-poor- ENTPs are less successful, they will change the way they approach things in order to be successful; therefore they spend time developing "introverted functions", isolating themselves and learning self-development skills.

    All of the above ENTPs, I named in the first sentence except ATG, are born-poor ENTPs. Howard Huges (The movie Aviator) could be an example of born-rich ENTPs.

    (P.S I've heard Einstein himself had OCD. May be his statement is self-descriptive.)
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  4. #14
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Well, except for his idea of nailing C to the frame of reference. That was a totally new-and-different idea, really a serious intuitive leap. That sort of thing isn't generally typical of INTPs. That idea wasn't just thinking outside the box--it redefined the box.
    That's why we look at the whole person, not just one function use, to determine type.

    Redefining boxes is more Ni, in any case. Ne is rather like following the lines of possibility out to their reasonable potential conclusions. It creates a string of connections like Christmas lights, each light dependent upon the prior one; and if a light goes out, the string is broken. Ni meanwhile throws the whole string of lights in the trash (because lights are arbitrary) and hangs up a stream of garlands instead.

    Ni and Ne are not mutually exclusive -- if you develop one, the other can develop as well (a little to a lot, depending on the person and situation) -- but they are just different ways of perceiving.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maha Raj View Post
    Also people with Ne are most likely to be extraverted throughout their life than developing "introverted" functions such as introverted feelings and introverted sensation. I think it depends of their "wealth". For example, born-rich ENTPs are les likely to develop "introverted functions" than born-poor ENTPs. When born-poor- ENTPs are less successful, they will change the way they approach things in order to be successful; therefore they spend time developing "introverted functions", isolating themselves and learning self-development skills.
    I think that is very possible -- a logical idea of how Ne is liable to play out based on environmental influences. In general, we follow the path of least resistance and develop traits as we need to.

    (P.S I've heard Einstein himself had OCD. May be his statement is self-descriptive.)
    I hadn't heard that, although I have heard that his reading skills were slow to develop (or, at the least, he was a lot smarter inside his head than people recognized from the outside, for a long time). And I know he got his theory first, then had to do the math after the fact (as an annoyance) to "prove it" to others.

    I don't know about ENTPs and OCD. Usually OCD is used to refer to the need for high (and usually superfluous) levels of organizational and predictability in order to avoid anxiety, isn't it? The intensity/compulsions of the ENTP tend to be more hedonistic, where they avoid anxiety by indulgence and sensory stimulation. This is not really labeled OCD, is it? It's usually hedonistic/addictive-style behavior?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  5. #15
    Oberon
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    I can tell you for certain, this ENTP is by no means addicted to arbitrary order.

  6. #16
    Member Maha Raj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post

    I don't know about ENTPs and OCD. Usually OCD is used to refer to the need for high (and usually superfluous) levels of organizational and predictability in order to avoid anxiety, isn't it? The intensity/compulsions of the ENTP tend to be more hedonistic, where they avoid anxiety by indulgence and sensory stimulation. This is not really labeled OCD, is it? It's usually hedonistic/addictive-style behavior?
    ESTPs are Hedonistic. ENTPs are anxious when it’s comes to Hedonistic behaviors because; ENTPs want some kind of stability for pleasure. For ENTPs, Hedonistic behaviors don’t seem to be stable, because an ENTP can see through it. Obviously, being an extravert we ENTPs say or do politically correct things that we don't believe in for fear of losing the company of our friends. But it doesn’t mean we are Hedonistic. We don't have the right word to express what we feel, but we feel it (intuitively). So lacking the words, we simply agree to politically correct things, or make politically correct jokes.

    OCD is also described as “seeing through things”. Like thinking that unattractive things could be unhealthy, so we tend to be very picky about them. Continuously, isolating ourselves from social contacts, because, we think it’s a waste of time. Eating or drinking same types of food for very long time, thinking that we won’t enjoy as much with other types of food. Either being frugal or getting obsessed with using all the opportunities we come across before it is too late.
    "Here I am! Now what are your other two wishes?"

  7. #17
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maha Raj View Post
    OCD is also described as "seeing through things." Like thinking that unattractive things could be unhealthy, so we tend to be very picky about them. Continuously, isolating ourselves from social contacts, because, we think it’s a waste of time. Eating or drinking same types of food for very long time, thinking that we won’t enjoy as much with other types of food. Either being frugal or getting obsessed with using all the opportunities we come across before it is too late.
    I haven't really observed that level of reclusive-ness in the average ENTP.

    And the "pickiness" is something I see more in INTP than ENTP... the self-preservationist and always picking the "best choice" contributes to some INTPs being picky eaters who do not want to branch out and try something they might actually like but just always want the MOST favorite food. Ne as a primary contributes to more exploration; the ENTPs I know tend to like to try many different things, especially with food. They like sampling, know of all the variations, and enjoy the sensate experience. (And yes, I'm sure about the "N" function they possess, they are definitely not ESTPs.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #18
    Member Maha Raj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I haven't really observed that level of reclusive-ness in the average ENTP.

    And the "pickiness" is something I see more in INTP than ENTP... the self-preservationist and always picking the "best choice" contributes to some INTPs being picky eaters who do not want to branch out and try something they might actually like but just always want the MOST favorite food. Ne as a primary contributes to more exploration; the ENTPs I know tend to like to try many different things, especially with food. They like sampling, know of all the variations, and enjoy the sensate experience. (And yes, I'm sure about the "N" function they possess, they are definitely not ESTPs.)
    What you say makes sense. But how long are we gonna explore with food when we intuitively develop the ability to guess the taste of the food without even trying it. Then we become picky right? Its our "Introverted Thinking" that makes us be picky. Both ENTP and INTP have that. We are little easy on it than INTPs.
    "Here I am! Now what are your other two wishes?"

  9. #19
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maha Raj View Post
    What you say makes sense. But how long are we gonna explore with food when we intuitively develop the ability to guess the taste of the food without even trying it. Then we become picky right? Its our "Introverted Thinking" that makes us be picky. Both ENTP and INTP have that. We are little easy on it than INTPs.
    Yes, the Ne contributes to the desire to try new things, the Ti tries to weed things out prior to experiencing them, based on past experience. The more "adventurous" INTPs in their physical lives, I think focus more on their Ne and gathering information. The notably pickier ones seemed to let the Ti reign over their lives when younger.

    So I would guess that we would see the same sort of inclinations in ENTPs as well.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #20
    Member Maha Raj's Avatar
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    Yes. If my new wife is cooking, I won’t be picky until I try all the foods she can cook. After a year or something, I may become picky. I will probably try happily any new changes she makes to her cooking, but if she sticks to her same style, I think I will be picky and ask her to make those foods I like the most.

    Same goes for sex. ;-)
    "Here I am! Now what are your other two wishes?"

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