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  1. #1
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Default Relative strength of intuition vs. sensing

    If sensing represents practicality and a focus on the concrete (and not running into walls, like I occasionally do), then intuition is - well, something different than that.

    Many ENFP's and ENTP's (and also INTP's and INFP's) that I've known have been seen by sensors as "out there" or "a little loopy" - eccentric daydreamers, if you will. We know that's not true (entirely), but that's how they see us because we are so much different than them.

    I was thinking the other day about how - as much as I enjoy the theoretical and throwing around ideas and concepts - there is also something in me that says, "it doesn't mean anything unless it becomes tangible". I was thinking, "If you have great ideas, then you have to strive to at least turn one of them into some sort of reality - something that benefits someone or some thing in some real way." I don't want my tombstone to read, "He had a bunch of great ideas. What a fellow!"

    Then I started wondering if ENTP's and ENFP's would be even "more theory, less tangible" than myself, being that their intuition is primary and their sensing is inferior. My intuition is only auxiliary and my sensing is tertiary. What I'm getting at is that sensing (concrete/practical) and intuition (ideas, concepts, theories) are "closer together" for me (2nd and 3rd functions) than they are for ENTP's and ENFP's (1st and 4th functions - big difference). In other words, if all other things are equal, perhaps I place more importance on the practical things of life than those types. I don't consider myself more practical or sensing than anyone (I'm very much an intuitive), but I wonder what ENTP's and ENFP's would say about this relation between sensing and intuition.

    Then I realized that INTJ's and INFJ's also have intuition as their primary function (but it's Ni, not Ne) and sensing as their inferior. But, they seem fairly practical in comparison to myself - meaning that sensors don't see them as being as "loopy" or "out of touch" as they see the Ne types.

    That's it. Would love to hear what people think.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  2. #2
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Because the Ni doms have Se as their inferior, it seems to give them a firmer grip on reality. This is very obvious in the INTJs and the need for something concrete and real to result from Ni-go check out ayn rand to see the theme. I dunno bout INFJs-but they do seem grounded.

    Really young Ne doms seem kind of like me-very prone to silly antics and endless connections. Ne is very playful and only cares about the next interesting thing, when unleashed from a judging function. Only novelty holds value-if the idea is well understood, then we leave it behind to find a new idea.

    The entps that I watch are still very Ne but the older ones balance their ideas using inferior Si. They may have a lot of good ideas but they screen them via TiSi (?) to identify the more practical ones. They also seem to want to have a positive impact on the group-they are oddly nuturing and motherly Fe? In some this is a bit of a mask effect to accomplish an objective, but in others there seems to be a very real drive to care for the group. But n=11 or so, so it is a small number.

    The older enfps I see are oddly practical as well. The still use a lot of Ne but again seem to screen against Si. But I have fewer of these to watch.

  3. #3
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    Because the Ni doms have Se as their inferior, it seems to give them a firmer grip on reality. This is very obvious in the INTJs and the need for something concrete and real to result from Ni-go check out ayn rand to see the theme. I dunno bout INFJs-but they do seem grounded.

    Really young Ne doms seem kind of like me-very prone to silly antics and endless connections. Ne is very playful and only cares about the next interesting thing, when unleashed from a judging function. Only novelty holds value-if the idea is well understood, then we leave it behind to find a new idea.

    The entps that I watch are still very Ne but the older ones balance their ideas using inferior Si. They may have a lot of good ideas but they screen them via TiSi (?) to identify the more practical ones. They also seem to want to have a positive impact on the group-they are oddly nuturing and motherly Fe? In some this is a bit of a mask effect to accomplish an objective, but in others there seems to be a very real drive to care for the group. But n=11 or so, so it is a small number.

    The older enfps I see are oddly practical as well. The still use a lot of Ne but again seem to screen against Si. But I have fewer of these to watch.
    Good info. Thanks. ENTP's and ENFP's definitely use Si, otherwise it would really get crazy. The Si is what keeps our feet on the ground so to speak. But, what I'm getting at is do you think it is harder for ENTP's and ENFP's to stay in a "tangible" frame of mind than it is for INTP's/INFP's, because of the relative positioning of Ne vs. Si?
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  4. #4
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    My brother's gf was personally tested as ENFP with N off the charts. I find it interesting because she has a hard time fitting into the world. It's like she is from a different planet. I'm getting the feeling she has some of the issues people talk about too much N having. I don't mean being out there, I mean actually fitting into the world. She is older than me.

    OT I'm very loopy.

  5. #5
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    Good info. Thanks. ENTP's and ENFP's definitely use Si, otherwise it would really get crazy. The Si is what keeps our feet on the ground so to speak. But, what I'm getting at is do you think it is harder for ENTP's and ENFP's to stay in a "tangible" frame of mind than it is for INTP's/INFP's, because of the relative positioning of Ne vs. Si?
    I think they do absolutely but It may get outweighed by the extroversion if you are measuring by tangible results. Even though the INTP idea will be more practical and rigorous-tertSi, then ENTP half baked idea may get accepted as the entp can put on a very polished shiny show-tertFe-even if the idea lacks grounding. I have a crazy entp I work with who does this all of the time. It took about five cycles of ideas before everyone figured out he was crazy. He never follows up on anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aurel View Post
    My brother's gf was personally tested as ENFP with N off the charts. I find it interesting because she has a hard time fitting into the world. It's like she is from a different planet. I'm getting the feeling she has some of the issues people talk about too much N having. I don't mean being out there, I mean actually fitting into the world. She is older than me.

    OT I'm very loopy.
    It appears I use a lot of Ne. I maxed out the NP socres on four different official MBTI tests. Internally I feel very weird and dont feel like I fit in at all as I see stuff so differently from most people. Externally I seem to done some really strange crap with Te and Si, so I can look very analytical and pragmatic and remain employed and be quite stable. But inside my head-I have all types of silly ideas. That's part of the reason I like this place is that is is like a release valve for the excess Ne.

  6. #6
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurel View Post
    My brother's gf was personally tested as ENFP with N off the charts. I find it interesting because she has a hard time fitting into the world. It's like she is from a different planet. I'm getting the feeling she has some of the issues people talk about too much N having. I don't mean being out there, I mean actually fitting into the world. She is older than me.

    OT I'm very loopy.
    Being "out there" (relative to sensors) is the reason why she has problems fitting into the world. I think all Ne users identify with this on some level. Some more than others, obviously. Sounds like she is one that really struggles with it.

    I know an ENFP who is very easy to talk to and people like her. But, the more that sensors get to know her, they think, "She's out in left field. She's all talk, no action. She's a bag of hot air. Fun, bubbly personality, but just kind of floating up in the sky. Needs to come back to earth and put her feet on the ground."

    I think she's great and I don't think we should let what others think depress us or get us down (even though that can be hard). So, my point is not that "ENFP's are nutty". I can relate to them, believe me. I have struggled myself with "fitting in" with sensors.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  7. #7
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    I think they do absolutely but It may get outweighed by the extroversion if you are measuring by tangible results. Even though the INTP idea will be more practical and rigorous-tertSi, then ENTP half baked idea may get accepted as the entp can put on a very polished shiny show-tertFe-even if the idea lacks grounding. I have a crazy entp I work with who does this all of the time. It took about five cycles of ideas before everyone figured out he was crazy. He never follows up on anything.
    Yes. I agree. I had this thought also. I think that I'm more "S" like than your average ENTP/ENFP, but not by much. But, I think their extroversion overcomes a lot of that.


    That's part of the reason I like this place is that is is like a release valve for the excess Ne.
    Yep.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  8. #8
    Member ElizaJane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    Good info. Thanks. ENTP's and ENFP's definitely use Si, otherwise it would really get crazy. The Si is what keeps our feet on the ground so to speak. But, what I'm getting at is do you think it is harder for ENTP's and ENFP's to stay in a "tangible" frame of mind than it is for INTP's/INFP's, because of the relative positioning of Ne vs. Si?
    I bet you're onto something. I'm thinking of the examples in my life, and the INTPs appear a little more productive. They're mostly writers — published writers*— who have that same "tugging" that you have about creating something tangible using their ideas. The ENTPs and ENFPs don't seem to produce as much physical material, but they do get things done through a different means. The ENTPs and ENFPs I know are teachers and one is a musician — all very inspiring people. There's a lot of auditory material and sharing going on. So, I also think some of it has to do with E vs I and communication style.

    Regarding INFJs, I've always felt like there's something in the "J" that cuts through the daydreaminess and says, "Hey, don't spend so much time dreaming — do something!" I envy INFPs for their vivid imaginations that seem unencumbered by life's demands. But, maybe it has more to do with Ni. I'm new at functions.

  9. #9
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElizaJane View Post
    I bet you're onto something. I'm thinking of the examples in my life, and the INTPs appear a little more productive. They're mostly writers — published writers*— who have that same "tugging" that you have about creating something tangible using their ideas. The ENTPs and ENFPs don't seem to produce as much physical material, but they do get things done through a different means. The ENTPs and ENFPs I know are teachers and one is a musician — all very inspiring people. There's a lot of auditory material and sharing going on. So, I also think some of it has to do with E vs I and communication style.

    Regarding INFJs, I've always felt like there's something in the "J" that cuts through the daydreaminess and says, "Hey, don't spend so much time dreaming — do something!" I envy INFPs for their vivid imaginations that seem unencumbered by life's demands. But, maybe it has more to do with Ni. I'm new at functions.
    Great input. How do you think you, as an INFJ, are viewed by "the majority" - the sensors of the world? Fairly eccentric, but still grounded?
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  10. #10
    Member ElizaJane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    Great input. How do you think you, as an INFJ, are viewed by "the majority" - the sensors of the world? Fairly eccentric, but still grounded?
    Exactly — I think people view me as eccentric but hyperaware. I'm big with eye contact, so I'm always zeroed in on the person who is talking. But then when I talk, they look at me like, "How did you arrive at that conclusion?" Sometimes they're interested, and sometimes they're just confused.

    One thing about sensors is that they often point out things about my expression and posture that I don't even realize I'm doing. Makes me extra self conscious. Apparently my face is very readable*— especially through my eyebrows. I can't control it!

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