[MBTI General] Relative strength of intuition vs. sensing

[Johnfloyd6675]

From the perspective of the emo-neurotic-ESTJ like ENFP :

This and even INTPness's earlier enfp sound like lots of NeFi, but maybe not a real well developed Te to help ground in the day to day details and follow through on plans.

Theoretically if an Ne-dom has tons of Ne, but a poor judging functions, they live in the moment and never make a choice-thus seem very silly, spastic and flighty. Like me and the chicken thread or the silly young ENTPs here. It's fun.

Combine with a bit of overdevelopment of the tert or poor development of both tert and aux-and they cant figure out which choice to make. They flip between the two judging functions.

Jung in his analysis of Ne describes our intuition as an attempt by the brain (I prefer brains to psyches) to envision all contingencies possible within a given situation, to identify problems, and to excite ourselves silly over the opportunities we discover.

ENTP is an unusual type with many intrinsic problems- not least among which is the fact that a hyped-up, manic, or drunk ENTP could win any given "Who's the Biggest Jackass" contest anywhere in the world- but I don't think it's chauvinism to say that our dominant function is mad cooler than everybody else's.

When it gets going, Ne is like a news aggregator and robot blogger hardwared into one computer: new knowledge (or experience) flows above your head like up-to-the-second indie journalism, and the robot blogger (the voice in your head) gets on his soapbox, hijacks the muscles that control your mouth, and starts giving the world a piece of its mind.

I'm bipolar, by which I mean I'm "type I bipolar, severe and with psychotic features" (this bipolar II is nonsense) so my experience of Ne during mania may be difference. The entire CNS is in overdrive and thoughts race faster than a healthy person would believe in a million years, but it's like ideas are being dropped on you, showered on you. The way they refer and signify one another during Ne reminds me of the Northern Lights; this brief, ethereal river of meaning for us in our tents.

In a roomful of Guardian/Artisan types, having a brain that booted from Ne that morning puts me at the very least one step ahead of everybody else and at the very most makes a spectacle of my trait of being funny and mean in turns. I agree wholeheartedly that Thinking must be the rein we hold as we try to bring Ne under control. I'm sure we've all made three-cheeked asses of ourselves at once point or another, probably by saying something that managed to offend everyone in your office complex.

Thinking, as a decisive process, should be used to enforce practical guidelines on the Ne, to inflict a fundamental soundness on any intuitive idea that's trying to get ahold of your body and make it carry it all out. Thinking should, like Hercules, drag the intuitive river of meaning onto a course that we set. You're in a bad situation if Ne is being used to hose down your horseshit.

Now, as for intuition vs. sensing, one might think that feelings could get hurt if we're too blunt or frank about things. Sensing seems to me a much more basic mode of data mining than intuition; the human body reports the facts of the environment to its Sensie brain, information unadulterated by craziness, speculation, or a psychiatric condition known as "craziness." Being a Sensie for a week, I imagine I'd appreciate the fragilities of flowers and the way mud feels between my toes, but after three days I expect I'd be jonesing for my Ne back.

Ne's info-improvisational superpowers elevate our perceptive function to the level of the pattern, the structure, the totality, and it is from of the less-detailed, get-the-idea-of-it objects that remarkable ideas originate. We must be careful with our Ti to hypothetically "go down" in an imaginary execution of our plan, which during this paragraph I wrote on the back of a napkin. But so long as we don't let our intuitions dictate our actions, but instead inform the brass in Thinking with the best perceptions possible.

I also definitely associate Sensing with Introversion, while Intuition remains an ambiverted/leaning NT function. I happen to think Extroverted Sensing is weird and would like an ESxy to explain themselves.

 

[Saslou]

Now, as for intuition vs. sensing, one might think that feelings could get hurt if we're too blunt or frank about things. Sensing seems to me a much more basic mode of data mining than intuition; the human body reports the facts of the environment to its Sensie brain, information unadulterated by craziness, speculation, or a psychiatric condition known as "craziness." Being a Sensie for a week, I imagine I'd appreciate the fragilities of flowers and the way mud feels between my toes, but after three days I expect I'd be jonesing for my Ne back.

Lol .. That's cute.

Being a sensor, sometimes i miss the details, for example i have lived in my place for a year now and i swear to god someone has planted 3 huge trees behind my house during the winter. I looked into the garden the other day and noticed the flowers/bloom on the trees then it seems out of nowhere the leaves appeared .. How the hell did i miss it?

I am continuously scanning the horizon unless i am lost in thought.

Sometimes i view myself as having poor visibility then life seems to give me the grounding i need to see everything clearer and sharper. Think black and white TV Vs High Definition TV

 

[Billy]

Intuition is fun. It can be kind of a hassle though sometimes, when you're in a bad mood and all those connections you make turn out negative and then become intense paranoia. hooboy.

 

[INTPness]

Jung in his analysis of Ne describes our intuition as an attempt by the brain (I prefer brains to psyches) to envision all contingencies possible within a given situation, to identify problems, and to excite ourselves silly over the opportunities we discover.

ENTP is an unusual type with many intrinsic problems- not least among which is the fact that a hyped-up, manic, or drunk ENTP could win any given "Who's the Biggest Jackass" contest anywhere in the world- but I don't think it's chauvinism to say that our dominant function is mad cooler than everybody else's.

Yes, yes, and yes. Even though ENTP's and ENFP's have a stronger - :workout: - Ne than I do, I can totally relate to this. What's interesting is that because my Ti is the boss, it always says, "I know you have the urge to make a jackass out of yourself right now, but you're better off to not do it. Ti and Si get together and say, "There are times in the past where we let Ne go free and it didn't turn out so well. Let's consider the company we are in first and then decide if it's appropriate to let Ne out of his cage." And when it does come out, it can be just like an ENTP. Sometimes I end up being the biggest wierdo in the room. Other times I'm a hero because I had everyone laughing harder than they've laughed in years. You just never know how it will turn out because it makes up it's mind as it goes - you never know what you're going to get from one second to the next. It sure is fun though when Ne gets cut loose.

In a roomful of Guardian/Artisan types, having a brain that booted from Ne that morning puts me at the very least one step ahead of everybody else

I had never thought of it that way before. This explains why in just about any job I've ever had, I show up in a great mood - ready to laugh and have fun - every single morning. And I'm always disillusioned after about 6 months when I realize that nobody else is excited like me. It's like, "OK, you guys aren't any fun, so I'm just going to retreat back into Ti - let me know if you need anything - I'll be right over here." And I'm fine with just staying in Ti all day, but Ne kind of keeps it fun and interesting. I need some Ne flare ups here and there to keep things interesting. "Come on guys, let's talk about some new ideas and get some creativity flowing in the room. It's getting stuffy in here and you all seem to be sulking. Wake up!" And if you really say something like that, that's when they kind of look at you like you're an idiot.

Now, as for intuition vs. sensing, one might think that feelings could get hurt if we're too blunt or frank about things. Sensing seems to me a much more basic mode of data mining than intuition; the human body reports the facts of the environment to its Sensie brain, information unadulterated by craziness, speculation, or a psychiatric condition known as "craziness." Being a Sensie for a week, I imagine I'd appreciate the fragilities of flowers and the way mud feels between my toes, but after three days I expect I'd be jonesing for my Ne back.

Ne's info-improvisational superpowers elevate our perceptive function to the level of the pattern, the structure, the totality, and it is from of the less-detailed, get-the-idea-of-it objects that remarkable ideas originate. We must be careful with our Ti to hypothetically "go down" in an imaginary execution of our plan, which during this paragraph I wrote on the back of a napkin. But so long as we don't let our intuitions dictate our actions, but instead inform the brass in Thinking with the best perceptions possible.

I also definitely associate Sensing with Introversion, while Intuition remains an ambiverted/leaning NT function. I happen to think Extroverted Sensing is weird and would like an ESxy to explain themselves.

I have observed Se and have some good friends who are Se users. They are the ones who notice EVERYTHING around them. They'll say, "Do you remember that green car that we passed earlier? The one on the corner of
3rd and Oak Street?" And they're disappointed when you don't remember it. "Dude, we just passed it like 10 minutes ago. It was parked right on the side of the road!" Uh, yeah, I didn't see it. Sorry. Or, "you know that dog that lives at the house around the corner?" No, what house? "Right around the corner. The Alaskan Malamute that sits on the driveway every Saturday afternoon." No, I have no idea. "You've lived here for a month now and you don't know what dog I'm talking about?" They just don't miss anything. They see it all.

 

[Johnfloyd6675]

I have observed Se and have some good friends who are Se users. They are the ones who notice EVERYTHING around them. They'll say, "Do you remember that green car that we passed earlier? The one on the corner of
3rd and Oak Street?" And they're disappointed when you don't remember it. "Dude, we just passed it like 10 minutes ago. It was parked right on the side of the road!" Uh, yeah, I didn't see it. Sorry. Or, "you know that dog that lives at the house around the corner?" No, what house? "Right around the corner. The Alaskan Malamute that sits on the driveway every Saturday afternoon." No, I have no idea. "You've lived here for a month now and you don't know what dog I'm talking about?" They just don't miss anything. They see it all.

Haha. I guess that was my point; when you're going somewhere in a car, Se damns you to remember the boring inanity of the location of green cars. My Ne, starting NOW, will impel a few calls until finally I get confirmation that my guy's got depth charges for the 4th of July. *Stop stopwatch on Ne*

Do most intuitives have a hard time with directions? When I first became familiar with MBTI I thought the Sensing factor was the strangest thing I'd ever heard of; it never occurred to me that some people simply passively observe the world as it is, with no insights or conclusions whatsoever being drawn. I definitely wish I had the moment-to-moment, don't-put-that-in-the-microwave street smarts that Se seems to confer (or, at any rate, Sensies seem to me very moment to moment and street smart).

I asked about directions because the other day I was driving to Chicago from the West, and the bridge on the Mississippi was shut down for construction, which was unfortunate, but I immediately and intuitively hopped on a northbound route, telling myself that there has to be more than one bridge on the Mississippi or the trucking lobby would have pulled a fit. I found another bridge and happily ever after.

How would Se react to this problem of being far from home, very foggy idea of where you are, and the only route you've ever traveled around here on is suddenly and unexpectedly closed. Where's your green car now?

 

[INTPness]

Haha. I guess that was my point; when you're going somewhere in a car, Se damns you to remember the boring inanity of the location of green cars. My Ne, starting NOW, will impel a few calls until finally I get confirmation that my guy's got depth charges for the 4th of July. *Stop stopwatch on Ne*

Do most intuitives have a hard time with directions? When I first became familiar with MBTI I thought the Sensing factor was the strangest thing I'd ever heard of; it never occurred to me that some people simply passively observe the world as it is, with no insights or conclusions whatsoever being drawn. I definitely wish I had the moment-to-moment, don't-put-that-in-the-microwave street smarts that Se seems to confer (or, at any rate, Sensies seem to me very moment to moment and street smart).

I asked about directions because the other day I was driving to Chicago from the West, and the bridge on the Mississippi was shut down for construction, which was unfortunate, but I immediately and intuitively hopped on a northbound route, telling myself that there has to be more than one bridge on the Mississippi or the trucking lobby would have pulled a fit. I found another bridge and happily ever after.

How would Se react to this problem of being far from home, very foggy idea of where you are, and the only route you've ever traveled around here on is suddenly and unexpectedly closed. Where's your green car now?

That's just it: there are areas that they excel more than intuitives and areas we excel more than them. They are street smart. They do have "common sense". They are in the details. We see the bigger picture, make accurate (uhh, mostly) connections, etc. What's funny is that if you had traveled north (with a "sensie" in your passenger seat) and not been able to find another bridge, you would have never heard the end of it - what a stupid move you had made. What in the world made you do that? Did you think another bridge would just appear out of thin air? And you'd be thinking, "up yours, buddy! 9 out of 10 times I'd be right while you and your sensie self would still be stuck on the outskirts of Chicago."

And yes, I think "sensies" tend to be good with directions. SF's not as much as ST's, in my experience. SP's (Se users) especially! They can drive through a city one time and then when they go back to that city a month later (for only the 2nd time ever), they can navigate it pretty darn well! I go to large cities 15 and 20 times and still don't know where the heck I'm at.

 

[Stanton Moore]

Well it's not just "fitting in" she actually fits in pretty well, she is interesting and kind. It's figuring what to do with her life, actually doing anything with it, getting a job, doing something productive. She did graduate from college and has many qualities that I think are sellable. She told me she always feels way behind her peers, like everyone else knows what to do and she has to catch up later. Maybe she has other issues I don't know about but its an interesting study in "N that is too high."

The above sounds just like me... I tested at 100% N.
I must admit that i've always been a little baffled by life, at how to get it right, at how to find my stride, my own pace.

 

[Billy]

SP's also make awesome carpenters, I am an NF and I tried it and I was terribad, my mentor is an ISFP and he is insaaaaaaaaane when it comes to figuring out things in the real world. He is that guy who knows every back road around and can get anywhere without highways just from memory.

 

[sculpting]

The way they refer and signify one another during Ne reminds me of the Northern Lights; this brief, ethereal river of meaning for us in our tents.

Ne's info-improvisational superpowers elevate our perceptive function to the level of the pattern, the structure, the totality, and it is from of the less-detailed, get-the-idea-of-it objects that remarkable ideas originate.

yup. I often sit quietly and am actually not that loud or hyper in real life. But in my mind? Like a torrent, a million layers deep. Sometimes all of the ideas are very silly and make me laugh but sometimes they feel so amazing, and are enthralling. Suddenly after pieces of conversations, bits of information, an entire pattern will bloom out of nothing. Like sugar crystals in water just forming....How could you not see the patterns? How can you not see the connections? A sea of Ne.

 

[sculpting]

Yes, yes, and yes. Even though ENTP's and ENFP's have a stronger - :workout: - Ne than I do, I can totally relate to this. What's interesting is that because my Ti is the boss, it always says, "I know you have the urge to make a jackass out of yourself right now, but you're better off to not do it. Ti and Si get together and say, "There are times in the past where we let Ne go free and it didn't turn out so well. Let's consider the company we are in first and then decide if it's appropriate to let Ne out of his cage." And when it does come out, it can be just like an ENTP. Sometimes I end up being the biggest wierdo in the room. Other times I'm a hero because I had everyone laughing harder than they've laughed in years. You just never know how it will turn out because it makes up it's mind as it goes - you never know what you're going to get from one second to the next. It sure is fun though when Ne gets cut loose.

yes! Ne is hysterical fun!

I drag the Ne out of my INTP and ENTP friends. They say I say all the crazy things they think and then we all laugh hysterically. My old INTP friend was always funniest when drunk as he would turn into an ENTP.

 

[JHBowden]

INTPness--

I agree with the spirit of the OP. There are too many ways to slice up perception-- liking process or spontaneity, a taste for the concrete or the abstract, a sharp focus versus a soft focus, comfort with stasis or dynamism, a preference for continuities versus discreteness, and so on.

Look at examples even in intellectual life.

Rousseau liked spontaneity, chance, and novelty, while Hegel liked process, necessity, and laws. Hume and Wittgenstein thought we could have no deep explanations for anything, while Schopenhauer and Locke always saw unseen forces at work. Carnap had a taste for clarity, sharpness, and precision, while James liked thresholds, indeterminacy, and blurs. Bradley looked at the world in eternal terms, while Bergson liked motion and transition. Dewey saw gradations and connections, while Moore looked at our universe and found divisions and units.

Who is more intuitive? One thing is certain: the MBTI, once we start reflecting upon it, is a very, very blunt instrument. It is pop psychology, not to be taken too seriously.

 

[Johnfloyd6675]

yes! Ne is hysterical fun!

... My old INTP friend was always funniest when drunk as he would turn into an ENTP.

With Ne, which I've always known as "hypomania," the best thing you can do is knock back a hundred milligrams of amphetamine and then do a line of coke every 2 minutes until you think your body's made of light.

The fire that catches in your skull after that? You've never seen such godlike craziness.

 

[INTPness]

With Ne, which I've always known as "hypomania," the best thing you can do is knock back a hundred milligrams of amphetamine and then do a line of coke every 2 minutes until you think your body's made of light.

The fire that catches in your skull after that? You've never seen such godlike craziness.

Maybe I don't have Ne afterall.

 

[INTPness]

INTPness--

I agree with the spirit of the OP. There are too many ways to slice up perception-- liking process or spontaneity, a taste for the concrete or the abstract, a sharp focus versus a soft focus, comfort with stasis or dynamism, a preference for continuities versus discreteness, and so on.

Look at examples even in intellectual life.

Rousseau liked spontaneity, chance, and novelty, while Hegel liked process, necessity, and laws. Hume and Wittgenstein thought we could have no deep explanations for anything, while Schopenhauer and Locke always saw unseen forces at work. Carnap had a taste for clarity, sharpness, and precision, while James liked thresholds, indeterminacy, and blurs. Bradley looked at the world in eternal terms, while Bergson liked motion and transition. Dewey saw gradations and connections, while Moore looked at our universe and found divisions and units.

Who is more intuitive? One thing is certain: the MBTI, once we start reflecting upon it, is a very, very blunt instrument. It is pop psychology, not to be taken too seriously.

That's one of the most neutral (or perhaps even positive) explanations that I've seen an NJ make describing (almost supporting) the NP way of viewing the world. Well done, my friend, well done. Can I buy you a drink?

An NJ actually gets the NP way of thinking and doesn't proceed to bash it.

 

[sculpting]

With Ne, which I've always known as "hypomania," the best thing you can do is knock back a hundred milligrams of amphetamine and then do a line of coke every 2 minutes until you think your body's made of light.

The fire that catches in your skull after that? You've never seen such godlike craziness.

This reminds me of that post "whatever" made awhile back about doing LSD in college and crying for three hours in the corner because she thought she was a hologram.

Nah, my Ne is floaty and drifty, but I have seen far too much drug abuse in others to ever even try pot myself. I'd prefer to float in my natural sea of Ne....

 

[JHBowden]

INTPness, I saw myself more as highlighting that we lose a lot of information by putting people into one of two large boxes, or even sixteen boxes. It isn't even clear what the official NP or NJ view really is.

I still win the beverage though, right?

 

[INTPness]

INTPness, I saw myself more as highlighting that we lose a lot of information by putting people into one of two large boxes, or even sixteen boxes. It isn't even clear what the official NP or NJ view really is.

I still win the beverage though, right?

Yeah, I knew what you were saying. I just liked that you showed appreciation for all the varying views of the people you listed, rather than just your view - or the views of people who are like you.

We're all different and we can all add value. It was refreshing to see that you recognized that.

As for the drink -------------> (best I can do for you at the moment)