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  1. #1
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Default Problems being overly assertive?

    NTs do you relate to this problem of mine. Especially INTPs and ENTJs...

    Do you consistently find having to hold your true nature back because people tend not to be cooperative when you function in a way that is most comfortable to you. Namely, by virtue of the radical T approach to matters?
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  2. #2
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    [post/rant deleted]

    Give us an example, please.

  3. #3
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    [post/rant deleted]

    Give us an example, please.
    For example, your SFJ manager isnt being clear on you about whether you work next, or you have a job. You dont care about him sugar-coating the truth, you just want the answer. So he avoids your questions and tries to make it all relative, yet you pin him in to the point where he cant slide anywhere else. And is forced to go nowhere but to give you a straight answer if he likes it or not. But still does not because truth is just too ugly for him, so he tells you what you want to hear..that you have your hours this week..than goes behind your back a few days later to cut them back...

    Yet maybe if you played along the game of his gentle and indirect ways of communication..maybe then he'd be more likely to give you what you want...

    So thats an example of how being perceived as overly assertive can discourage certain people from cooperating with you.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

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  4. #4
    Oberon
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    I don't think that's a function issue on your part; I think that's a character issue on his part.

  5. #5
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    I don't think that's a function issue on your part; I think that's a character issue on his part.
    Well..i notice that feeling types..especially SFs tend to buckle and feign cooperation..than go behind my back..

    I do think however assertiveness has much to do with being a T..especially NT..as this makes us less concerned with harmony, thus upsetting others becomes less significant of a concern. With that being said we'd be in a better position to drive the point home.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  6. #6
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    I can be extremely assertive and I'm an eNFJ. By assertive, I mean BLUNT. It can perhaps be more endemic to Thinkers, but I've known some pretty waffley Ts.

    And frankly, as logical and geared to problem solve as NTs are, getting around one person is simply a matter of asking the right lawyerly questions. You seem to know enough of this person to complain of their behavior as inefficient. I decry that you have no interest in examining the manager's character, and are therefore seeking a practical solution.

    Or are you merely wishing to vent a complaint?
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  7. #7
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    I can be extremely assertive and I'm an eNFJ. By assertive, I mean BLUNT. It can perhaps be more endemic to Thinkers, but I've known some pretty waffley Ts.

    And frankly, as logical and geared to problem solve as NTs are, getting around one person is simply a matter of asking the right questions. You seem to know enough of them to complain of their behavior as inefficient. I decry that you have no interest in examining the manager's character, and are therefore seeking a practical solution.

    Or are you merely wishing to vent a complaint?
    No, you're interpreting it from a personal angle, there isnt much there.

    I am just trying to explore the question of whether or not there is a correlation between behavioral assertiveness and 'NTness'.

    We seem to have different notions in mind in regards to the idea of assertiveness.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  8. #8
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    No, you're interpreting it from a personal angle, there isnt much there.

    I am just trying to explore the question of whether or not there is a correlation between behavioral assertiveness and 'NTness'.

    We seem to have different notions in mind in regards to the idea of assertiveness.
    I have had NTs express a lot of dismay over not being received well and/or treated like lepers when showing their "force", so to speak, even in calm moments. My ENTJ best friend for example feels almost hog-tied by the sheer force of her T and her judging function coupled with Extroversion. She's seen as "aggressive" and "mannish".

    But you brought up the SFJ manager as the source of your irritation. This person sounds, as Oberon succinctly pointed out, like a flawed character, and is merely serving as a foil for your already "hair-trigger" T assertiveness.
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  9. #9
    Senior Member MerkW's Avatar
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    PinkPiranha makes a point I wished to say myself. I don't think that INTPs are particularly assertive. Assertiveness, to me, has always appeared to be an xxTJ trait, though particularly xNTJ, taking into consideration the fact that xSTJs are more likely to "soften" their assertiveness for sake of etiquette, or something along those lines.

    xNTPs on the other hand, rather than being assertive, seem more blunt and oblivious to what might "upset" someone. I, for instance, am rather unassertive, but I am EXTREMELY blunt. I pay absolutely no attention whatsoever to social conventions, whether this be intentional or unintentional (occasionally a mix of both). I rarely realize how something I say could be perceived as even remotely unkind.

    This is the problem I have with xxFJs, especially xSFJs. Whenever speaking with an FJ, I always notice how hesitant they are to directly say what is on their minds, or the truth, for the mere sake of hoping that nobody is "hurt." When this happens, I always pressure the FJ into saying the direct truth by insisting that I couldn't care less about the emotional consequences, I just want to know the truth. Still, they always seem to find ways to never directly state it. They always get very uncomfortable, and usually try to "fluff up" their statements, and try to avoid talking about the subject matter.

    Similarly, even if they do not openly express it, whenever I say something considered to be socially unacceptable, I often can sense how horrified the FJs are. This, of course, applies not to all FJs. xNFJs can occasionally have their moments of "bluntness," however, the cause is, I think, different from the cause of bluntness in INTPs and ENTPs.
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  10. #10
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    I am drunk, so forgive me. My learn idea of assertive is..

    Telling your opinion and being a driving force for your cause, while respecting the boundaries of others. You will respect that some people will not believe some thing and that's it.

    At the same time, you will not be submitting. You will not give in to another person for non-justified reasons. You will hold your ground while being under attack.

    Discalimer: I will resume my clarity of thought (if any) while not inebriated.

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