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  1. #41
    A passer by yvonne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Also, with the whole "expressing opinions to others" thing, sometimes I can't express them because I think there must be an impersonal, valid reason to express something that is, inherently, personal and relatively unique to myself. If I can't think of a reason why I think what I think, then I won't say anything because I won't be able to defend it.

    A good method to squeeze them out of us, would be very similar to number 2 on that list: the whole "let's step back and take a look at this" approach, because you may have to help them reorganize everything into a coherent picture, so he's able to say, "Aha, I feel bad because of this."
    i can identify with this and some of the other stuff in the OP. obviously i'm "better" with the feeling side of things nowadays... i struggle a bit with expressing opinions. i think it's because i wish to be coherent and do it right. i'd like to open my mouth when i know what i am saying and i am familiar with the route that took me to the conclusions i am stating.

    i still think i either talk too much, or too little on many occasions. i just can't seem to get it right.
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  2. #42
    Senior Member Oeufa's Avatar
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    I love this thread! I can relate a lot to much of what's been said so far. tcda has a point - why would anyone want an INTP? We seem awfully finicky from this (and other) thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
    Mmkay, that makes sense, but how about the intrapersonal awareness part? I'm not even sure what my question is because I just don't understand how someone wouldn't be aware of how they feel.
    I'm not sure how to explain this to someone who hasn't experienced it... Essentially, I could be in the same emotional state/mood for quite some time, and until it gets extremely strong and hits me in the face I won't be aware of it. Only then will I realise, "Oh, I've actually felt like this for a while now, though not as strongly as I am at the moment." I never seem to be able to name my moods either. Tis odd... With regards opinions, I hate giving mine. I'd rather just sit back in a discussion, absorb everything that's being said, look at it from all angles and then come to my own conclusion. Of course, someone might then add another nugget of information that I hadn't previously been aware of and my views will have completely changed. Because my opinions alter so much and so often I won't give them unless expressly asked; even then I give it tentatively enough. People tend to think that my views won’t/can’t change as drastically as they do. If the topic comes up again and I take a completely different stance I might be considered a liar or whimsical Although the whimsy part is true
    Ti>Ne>Si>Te>Fi>Ni>Se=Fe

    And yes, there are such things as INTPs who overuse emoticons

  3. #43
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Since we don't really use personal feelings for the vast majority of our decision making, they just kind of float around without any kind of name-tags or instructions about where they came from and where they're supposed to go. On their own it's generally fine, but after a while some negative stuff can build up but we can't figure out where to begin when trying to structure and organize them into something coherent and understandable to someone else. So when we get to a situation where we actually need them, ie, making known what some of our feelings are in regards to a relationship or telling our partner something is wrong...we can't really pinpoint certain feelings to certain events or actions that precipitate those feelings, so explaining them is sort of a mess. And if we can't explain it rather precisely, we're in extreme danger of being misunderstood and not having the tools to correct that misunderstanding, which can be very stressful.

    Also, with the whole "expressing opinions to others" thing, sometimes I can't express them because I think there must be an impersonal, valid reason to express something that is, inherently, personal and relatively unique to myself. If I can't think of a reason why I think what I think, then I won't say anything because I won't be able to defend it.

    A good method to squeeze them out of us, would be very similar to number 2 on that list: the whole "let's step back and take a look at this" approach, because you may have to help them reorganize everything into a coherent picture, so he's able to say, "Aha, I feel bad because of this."
    Cool, most enlightening!

    Quote Originally Posted by The0blivious View Post
    I'm not quite sure how to explain it...but, I often see this illustrated through the people who know me, I always find that they know more about my character than I know of myself. I tend not to latch onto opinions or positions at all in fact, there is too much uncertainty in the world, and does it really matter what is or isn't true in a world that may or may not exist? Unless it's an immediate problem, or something that I happen to be thinking about at the moment, if you ask my opinion expect to wait. Also, don't expect it to be the same the next time you ask me.
    As a Ne-Ti user I totally understand not having concrete views on anything in life and constantly seeing new information that can change one's perspective, so have no interest or expectation of anything definitive when asking an INTP about something internal, it's the inability of an INTP to have intrapersonal awareness that confuses me. I get Ti and the difficulty with articulating things, and know as an extrovert I have the ability to be more expressive. It's what Jock said "personal feelings... just kind of float around without any kind of name-tags or instructions about where they came from and where they're supposed to go", that's the part that I don't really experience, it's the internal goings on, not external that I'm curious about. I can't always name my inner thoughts and emotions on the spot but I can (and tend to automatically) introspect and do that, I'm trying to figure out if INTPs are different in that regard or just less likely to express intrapersonal things after introspecting.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    I believe it has much to do with being an introverted thinker. Most of the time, I really do live in my head. In my own little world. In my own zone. Within that zone, everything seems crystal clear. Just about every topic can be worked out cleanly inside my head. But when someone engages me, well, it's not that I'm incapable of telling them what's in my head or what I think/feel about something because I can. But........let's just say if they have a lot of time to sit down and really let me get it out, then I'll be much more effective at turning my thoughts and feelings into words.
    Understand that intimately. I think it may have to do with being inferior Fe users mixed with dom Ti users though.

    Is this person,
    (a) picking my brain because they really want to know the depths of what I think?
    (b) wanting to stir things up a bit (it happens quite a bit) and kind of debate an issue they feel strongly about
    (c) are they just wanting a very simple straightforward answer (probably most likely, but not necessarily the INTP's strength).

    Also, are they joking and saying things in a lighthearted way or are they looking for a more serious discussion?

    I can answer in any one of these ways, but I don't know which they're looking for. I'm looking for context first. In short, it's sometimes very difficult for me to take what I know in my head, the depth of an issue, and present it clearly to someone without some preparation. If I'm preparing a speech, then yes, I will communicate effectively. If it's on the spot and you want a quick answer - then, for the most part, I don't really know how I feel about it.
    I'm talking in general but the main INTP in my life is my partner so he shouldn't have questions over my motives... I hope =/

    Answering on the spot may be difficult, I don't have expectations with that, but answering in your own time? Do you still find that difficult?

    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    …just why do you need to know?

    When I understand I shall pwn you MacGuffin, [vader voiceover] pwn you good!

    Quote Originally Posted by Oeufa View Post
    I'm not sure how to explain this to someone who hasn't experienced it... Essentially, I could be in the same emotional state/mood for quite some time, and until it gets extremely strong and hits me in the face I won't be aware of it. Only then will I realise, "Oh, I've actually felt like this for a while now, though not as strongly as I am at the moment." I never seem to be able to name my moods either. Tis odd... With regards opinions, I hate giving mine. I'd rather just sit back in a discussion, absorb everything that's being said, look at it from all angles and then come to my own conclusion. Of course, someone might then add another nugget of information that I hadn't previously been aware of and my views will have completely changed. Because my opinions alter so much and so often I won't give them unless expressly asked; even then I give it tentatively enough. People tend to think that my views won’t/can’t change as drastically as they do. If the topic comes up again and I take a completely different stance I might be considered a liar or whimsical Although the whimsy part is true
    As I said above, I get Ne-Ti, in the wrong order of course, but I get them. It's what's going on inside your head in regards to gaining (or being unable to gain) intrapersonal awareness that I'm curious about. Not being able to name emotions isn't something I experience and I see open ended questions about intrapersonal things as a chance to exercise my Ne more often than not. The differences sound subtle but I think in practice they're quite big.

  4. #44
    Senior Member BlueGray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
    As I said above, I get Ne-Ti, in the wrong order of course, but I get them. It's what's going on inside your head in regards to gaining (or being unable to gain) intrapersonal awareness that I'm curious about. Not being able to name emotions isn't something I experience and I see open ended questions about intrapersonal things as a chance to exercise my Ne more often than not. The differences sound subtle but I think in practice they're quite big.
    It's a problem with more than just emotions. Anything that has to be experienced to be understood is like this for INTPs. People's descriptions aren't perfect and the actual experiencing of an emotion are different for different people. There may be some inkling of what the emotion is but oftentimes the emotion is either not concrete enough are far too different among people to be named.

    I end up using happy/not happy for most of the emotions I feel. The primary exception is anger since it always has an obvious external cause. The biggest problem in naming emotions is that they are fickle. If I try to name the emotion I feel normal. It's almost like there never was an emotion. You are left with the thoughts that accompanied the emotion. And unless the emotion was very strong the thoughts aren't going to be enough to put a name to it.
    Ne > Ti > Si >> Te > Se >> Fe > Fi > Ni
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueGray View Post
    I end up using happy/not happy for most of the emotions I feel. The primary exception is anger since it always has an obvious external cause. The biggest problem in naming emotions is that they are fickle. If I try to name the emotion I feel normal. It's almost like there never was an emotion. You are left with the thoughts that accompanied the emotion. And unless the emotion was very strong the thoughts aren't going to be enough to put a name to it.
    That's a very good way to put it I never thought of this way but the way you explained it is very accurate.

    Anger and frustration are much more obvious than more subtle states of emotions like doubt and anxiety. I could be thinking thoughts like 'my work is so sloppy; how can I ever get to that level?' or 'I can't wait until that Tuesday appointment is over with' and not even realize what emotion accompanies/prompts those thoughts in the first place. I would still feel 'normal.'

  6. #46
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
    I'm talking in general but the main INTP in my life is my partner so he shouldn't have questions over my motives... I hope =/

    Answering on the spot may be difficult, I don't have expectations with that, but answering in your own time? Do you still find that difficult?
    Yeah, it's much different when we are close to you. With someone who I've become really close to, I can articulate anything I want very clearly. I don't have my Ti "filter" on nearly as much. Ti can almost take on the form of Te with people I'm close to. It's still Ti, but we're not as reluctant to expose it like we sometimes are with people we don't know that well. It's a strange thing. For the handful or two of people I'm closest to in life, I don't have much problem communicating clearly.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  7. #47
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    I've tended to figure that when Fe is at the bottom of the pile it can get like a piece of cheese left in a cupboard - easily forgotten till it gets really ripe.
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

    INFP, 6w7, IEI

    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  8. #48
    Junior Member atticus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueGray View Post
    I end up using happy/not happy for most of the emotions I feel. The primary exception is anger since it always has an obvious external cause. The biggest problem in naming emotions is that they are fickle. If I try to name the emotion I feel normal. It's almost like there never was an emotion. You are left with the thoughts that accompanied the emotion. And unless the emotion was very strong the thoughts aren't going to be enough to put a name to it.
    Ha! I expected a lot of similarities between INTPs, but this one took me by surprise! I use fear / love for mine, as the foundation for many queued rational equations used to determine the source and effect of the emotions.

    Kudos to OP and INTPness for the commitment to this thread. I think I'll print several copies of this out, make a cover page that reads "INTP Survival Manual," and hand them to potential romantic partners in the future.

  9. #49
    Senior Member ExAstrisSpes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Personally, I exaggerate the negatives because I think it's funny in general and in particular, in line with the humor in which I wrote the thread. Also, If someone is in a romantic relationship with an INTP, they most likely had to do most of the legwork anyways so they're probably well aware of the positives.
    The negatives are very funny, although it's somewhat hell living through them. The positives are definitely worth it.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueGray View Post
    My opinions on people are always developed through emotion. This means that for most people it takes a while before I have any opinion at all on them. It just seems like developing an opinion of someone through any other method is wrong somehow. When I'm asked my opinion on someone, most of the times I don't have one yet.
    Interesting. How long does it take you to form an opinion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kasper View Post
    As I said above, I get Ne-Ti, in the wrong order of course, but I get them. It's what's going on inside your head in regards to gaining (or being unable to gain) intrapersonal awareness that I'm curious about. Not being able to name emotions isn't something I experience and I see open ended questions about intrapersonal things as a chance to exercise my Ne more often than not. The differences sound subtle but I think in practice they're quite big.
    I can relate to this.

    Quote Originally Posted by atticus View Post
    Kudos to OP and INTPness for the commitment to this thread. I think I'll print several copies of this out, make a cover page that reads "INTP Survival Manual," and hand them to potential romantic partners in the future.
    Oh dear. Hopefully those ladies are understanding. I'm not quite sure what I'd do if some guy gave me a manual and said, "Here. This is how you communicate with me." Although now that I'm in the relationship, I can see how it would be helpful.

  10. #50
    Senior Member Trentham's Avatar
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    What an astoundingly useful thread. Even though it's mostly aimed at other types, it helps us INTPs understand ourselves and our own motivations more clearly.

    I mean seriously, how hilarous-because-it's-TRUE is this???

    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    ...or tied to him/her financially, which is certainly a lie since INTPs are probably the most happy type with being homeless.
    Subscribed for future reference.
    83% I 70% N 64% T 73% P | 5w4 sp/so/sx | Chaotic Good

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