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  1. #21
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uytuun View Post
    INTPs aren't that bad.
    But some seem to try very hard online to make their own type appear so!
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    But some seem to try very hard online to make their own type appear so!
    Why do you care so much?

  3. #23
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    All these threads on INTP's in relationships just make me think "why the fuck would I bother?"

    There must be a lot of masochists with self-esteem issues out there, maybe girls who were abandoned by their daddies, who are drawn to the traits described (some of which I sadly have a tendency to though I really try to be as balanced as possible).
    Personally, I exaggerate the negatives because I think it's funny in general and in particular, in line with the humor in which I wrote the thread. Also, If someone is in a romantic relationship with an INTP, they most likely had to do most of the legwork anyways so they're probably well aware of the positives.



  4. #24
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    You raise a good point. I think this has been one of my big weaknesses in relationships, which kind of defeats my post saying "we'll do anything in our power for you." So, I'll rescind that and say this:

    What I've told my partners (and it has caused problems) is basically: I don't want to be "changed". I don't want to be molded into what you want me to be. I don't enjoy fitting into someone else's "boyfriend mold". At heart, we are iconoclasts. We desire that freedom. But, we are fiercely loyal if we are given that space and come to care about someone.
    I think that if you desire that type of freedom then it's best to be with someone who wants that same kind of thing or deciding whether a relationship is for you. Because how that plays out in the real world to be very push/pull and conflicting signals.

    I think what you're describing sounds more like wanting someone who is there when you want them to be there and not when you don't want them to be there. That's the less neutral interpretation of autonomy. Perhaps that "boyfriend mold" you're referring to is the expectation in a relationship that the other partner will want to do the things you're describing without prompting. Is it reasonable for a person to expect this? I don't know. On a certain level, I think that if you've been in any type of loving relationship (romantic or otherwise) some of this is implicit. The question for a person needing this is how to find autonomy and still be in a mutually satisfying relationship where one person doesn't feel like they're doing an inordinate amount of stretching and accommodating.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    So, this works:
    "I know you'll be working on some stuff this Saturday night, but it would be really important to me if you would come with me for an hour with my friends at dinner. You wouldn't have to hang out with us for hours afterwards, but it would really mean a lot to me to have you there over dinner." (This gives me the autonomy to say "no", but also lets me know how important it is to you. If I do choose the "no" option, it's very important that the other person is accepting of my decision and doesn't use it against me in future arguments.)
    I read that as: "I'm so sorry, I hate to impugn upon you. I know that pondering the nature of Twinkie fillings and spending time with me, your SO, is a decision of ineffable difficulty, but if you don't mind me interrupting that very important work would you mind spending time with me this weekend? Oh, and if you do choose to ponder the Twinkie filling I promise not to take it on you by withholding sex."

    Seriously, dude that how I read it! But yes, I understand what you're saying.

    Here's my EJ answer to that: "OK so let's rotate weekends. We at least agree to see each other on the 1st and 3rd weekends of the month and the 2nd and the 4th if I want to do my thing and you want to do yours that's cool. If we want to see each other those weekends, that's cool too."

    I have a feeling that would be construed as controlling and excessive scheduling, when I see that as creating a working solution around a needs for autonomy and togetherness.

    So my basic point is how one sees a concession and accommodation to the needs of another may not be interpreted as such. So if repeated attempts to accommodate are not recognized, then you flow into a situation like this:

    "You never go anywhere with me. You don't care about my feelings. You just want to do what you want to do."

    or,

    "How come you never get me flowers? Good boyfriends do stuff like that."
    Which I don't think are invalid statements. Especially if previous attempts have gone unrecognized and ignored.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    We do get caught up in our own worlds and we do procrastinate and there will be times where it's not the right time to talk about certain issues, but the effectiveness and responsiveness one gets is in the approach they take with the INTP. My personal thoughts are that I am not someone else's caged animal. Give me autonomy to make decisions that I'm comfortable with. That really is the best approach with me. The more I'm beaten and battered with "you gotta go!" and "you gotta come!", the more I'm going to shut down to the idea. If it's my option and I know that people will be fine with either option I choose (this is key, don't judge me or beat me down if I don't choose YOUR option), then I might just surprise you and show up. And the next time too. And there will probably be fresh flowers on the table when we get home too.
    I think this supports what I'm saying...being lost in your own world you're not observant towards the emotional peaks and valleys of your partner and why something like the statements you gave above may seem to come out of nowhere when they may be the culmination events and situations. It doesn't seem like manipulation or coercion to me. It could be someone frustrated at feeling ignored or like they'll always be in second place to some more important interest. Just as you may react by becoming distant the other person may react by becoming more insistent. It somewhat sounds to me like "If you give me my independence then I'll act like I'm in a relationship with you." Simple solution to me seems like just don't get in the relationship.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  5. #25
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uytuun View Post
    Why do you care so much?
    How do you know how much I care based on a wall of text? My level of feeling could range from mild irritation to deep depression and anything inbetween.

    I could give you a long answer, but my short answer to many online INTP's would be, don't openly tell me how annoying, self-obsessed and socially useless you are, and then expect me not to comment that you are those things!
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  6. #26
    Pose! Salt n' pepper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Personally, I exaggerate the negatives because I think it's funny in general and in particular, in line with the humor in which I wrote the thread. Also, If someone is in a romantic relationship with an INTP, they probably had to do most of the legwork anyways so they're probably well aware of the positives.
    yup

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    I think INxx's are pretty "prickly" in trying to get along with long-term.
    Orly?

    In my experience/case, it's the other way around: "prickly" in trying to get along with short-term, comparatively easy sailing over the long-term.

  8. #28
    Senior Member BlueGray's Avatar
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    Another problem is naming emotions. I've heard people say them but what descriptions people give are often not enough. A lot of times I'll feel something but have no idea what emotion it is called by others. It takes a while before I can put a name to it. in the meantime people expect me to tell them what it is when I truly have no idea.

    Typically it's only the strongest of emotions that are able to make themselves heard to myself. I've also developed a way of suppressing influences. This includes physical sensations, pain, emotions and surroundings. I think it's similar to meditation of some form.

    My opinions on people are always developed through emotion. This means that for most people it takes a while before I have any opinion at all on them. It just seems like developing an opinion of someone through any other method is wrong somehow. When I'm asked my opinion on someone, most of the times I don't have one yet.
    Ne > Ti > Si >> Te > Se >> Fe > Fi > Ni
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    Chaotic Neutral/Evil

  9. #29
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    ENFP's like us. INFJ's like us. Sometimes ENFJ's and INFP's too. We must be doing something right.

    But, yeah, I see what you're saying. I think INxx's are pretty "prickly" in trying to get along with long-term.
    entjs work pretty well too, and i've known many intps who seemed to get along moderately well with an sfj doormat.

    in my experience, e5 and e7 have a nice counterbalancing heaviness/lightness exchange.

  10. #30
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I think that if you desire that type of freedom then it's best to be with someone who wants that same kind of thing or deciding whether a relationship is for you.
    Most definitely. I was commenting on some past relationships. I most definitely do want someone who is independent and has their own thing going on. It's a desirable trait in a partner. It's something like this:

    YouTube - Ne-Yo - Miss Independent

    I'm all about traditional roles too. I'm pretty traditional like that, but she should have something going on besides me. There are a lot of very successful couples who are both out saving the world in their own ways, but they are there for each other, deeply committed and in love.

    I think what you're describing sounds more like wanting someone who is there when you want them to be there and not when you don't want them to be there. That's the less neutral interpretation of autonomy. Perhaps that "boyfriend mold" you're referring to is the expectation in a relationship that the other partner will want to do the things you're describing without prompting. Is it reasonable for a person to expect this? I don't know. On a certain level, I think that if you've been in any type of loving relationship (romantic or otherwise) some of this is implicit. The question for a person needing this is how to find autonomy and still be in a mutually satisfying relationship where one person doesn't feel like they're doing an inordinate amount of stretching and accommodating.
    If she needs me, I'm there for her. Every girl I've ever been involved with has known that. Please know how loyal INTP's are. We just want room to be an individual. And we want you to be an individual too. Together, we're a team and there for each other in the deepest of ways. But, I can't be you. I have to be me. I could have flipped the scenario with the ones I mentioned and been the one that was always demanding them to come around to my way of thinking. Instead of them saying, "why don't you ever go out with me?" I could have said, "why don't you ever stay in with me?" And I could have beaten that drum for the duration of the relationship. But, I don't have that desire to conform someone to my way. I want you to do what you love and have fun doing it. Be happy. Be free. Be dedicated and loyal to me and to our relationship (because I will), but I'm not going to beat you down with my corny expectations of how you should spend your time. You are a grown woman. Do what you want and I will support you in that. We can spend plenty of time together. But, I am innately very introverted so I can't hang out with your friends (that's an edit - I didn't mean to say I can't hang out with "you" - I meant to say "you and your friends") as much as you might like. It's compromise. Stop being so disappointed in me, in who I am, and in what I do. I'm not disappointed in you. Be who you are! I'm not your boss. I'm your partner in life.

    I read that as: "I'm so sorry, I hate to impugn upon you. I know that pondering the nature of Twinkie fillings and spending time with me, your SO, is a decision of ineffable difficulty, but if you don't mind me interrupting that very important work would you mind spending time with me this weekend? Oh, and if you do choose to ponder the Twinkie filling I promise not to take it on you by withholding sex."

    Seriously, dude that how I read it! But yes, I understand what you're saying.
    LOL. That was funny. But, also, it's that kind of sarcasm about our temperament that makes it obvious that a partner isn't going to let us be who we are (what are you doing that's so important anyways? Pondering the meaning of twinkie fillings? Yes. That's what I'm doing. Thanks for being so completely open and understanding of who I am. Our 60 years together should be real fun!).

    Here's my EJ answer to that: "OK so let's rotate weekends. We at least agree to see each other on the 1st and 3rd weekends of the month and the 2nd and the 4th if I want to do my thing and you want to do yours that's cool. If we want to see each other those weekends, that's cool too."

    I have a feeling that would be construed as controlling and excessive scheduling, when I see that as creating a working solution around a needs for autonomy and togetherness.
    Yeah, that's cool. We can make arbitrary compromises like that. How about just, "If you want to see me or hang out, give me a call or come on over. You're always welcome here. I just don't always want to go party!" Again, that's me. Let me be me. Why try to mold me into someone who likes to do all the things that you like to do? Why not accept or even celebrate our differences?


    I think this supports what I'm saying...being lost in your own world you're not observant towards the emotional peaks and valleys of your partner and why something like the statements you gave above may seem to come out of nowhere when they may be the culmination events and situations. It doesn't seem like manipulation or coercion to me. It could be someone frustrated at feeling ignored or like they'll always be in second place to some more important interest. Just as you may react by becoming distant the other person may react by becoming more insistent.
    Yeah, you're right. It's a push and pull when you've got an EJ and an IP together. You've touched on some of the things that P's struggle with in relationships. We aren't perfect and it would do us good to work on these things to the best of our abilities.

    It somewhat sounds to me like "If you give me my independence then I'll act like I'm in a relationship with you." Simple solution to me seems like just don't get in the relationship.
    No. I'm in a relationship with you and I'm going to do my best to be the best that I know how to be for you. We have different personalities and we have to come to terms with these things. I don't want to "be you" and I don't want you to "be me". I want you to be who you are (and work on things as best you can) and I'll be who I am and work on things the best that I can. I don't "act like I'm in a relationship" or "not act like it". I just know that it feels good and it feels right (to me) when a woman allows me to be who I am. I don't know any human being that wants to get the feeling from their partner that, "You better change or this isn't going to work." Not even EJ's want their partner doing that to them. So why would they do it to their partner? We have to let people be who we are. I love deeply when I'm in a relationship. But love me for me - not for who you would like to see me be. That would no longer be me anymore. I'll do the same for you. I'll love you right where you are - for who you are right now. Not for "what I'd like you to be" or "what I wish you were".

    It aint easy, obviously, but we have to work within the individual personalities we've been given.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

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