User Tag List

First 1234 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 59

  1. #11
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    8,193

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
    Two things:

    ...difficulty with intrapersonal awareness (problems knowing what they are feeling and value inside)...

    ...may have problems expressing (or even knowing) their own opinions to others (may be due to either not having an opinion, needing to ensure the validity of their opinion, or not valuing opinions)...

    I seen it happen but I can't comprehend it, INTPs explain! How does one not know how they feel or be unable to express their opinion? How can others squeeze it oudda ya?
    Since we don't really use personal feelings for the vast majority of our decision making, they just kind of float around without any kind of name-tags or instructions about where they came from and where they're supposed to go. On their own it's generally fine, but after a while some negative stuff can build up but we can't figure out where to begin when trying to structure and organize them into something coherent and understandable to someone else. So when we get to a situation where we actually need them, ie, making known what some of our feelings are in regards to a relationship or telling our partner something is wrong...we can't really pinpoint certain feelings to certain events or actions that precipitate those feelings, so explaining them is sort of a mess. And if we can't explain it rather precisely, we're in extreme danger of being misunderstood and not having the tools to correct that misunderstanding, which can be very stressful.

    Also, with the whole "expressing opinions to others" thing, sometimes I can't express them because I think there must be an impersonal, valid reason to express something that is, inherently, personal and relatively unique to myself. If I can't think of a reason why I think what I think, then I won't say anything because I won't be able to defend it.

    A good method to squeeze them out of us, would be very similar to number 2 on that list: the whole "let's step back and take a look at this" approach, because you may have to help them reorganize everything into a coherent picture, so he's able to say, "Aha, I feel bad because of this."



  2. #12
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    XNTP
    Posts
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
    Mmkay, that makes sense, but how about the intrapersonal awareness part? I'm not even sure what my question is because I just don't understand how someone wouldn't be aware of how they feel.
    I'm not quite sure how to explain it...but, I often see this illustrated through the people who know me, I always find that they know more about my character than I know of myself. I tend not to latch onto opinions or positions at all in fact, there is too much uncertainty in the world, and does it really matter what is or isn't true in a world that may or may not exist? Unless it's an immediate problem, or something that I happen to be thinking about at the moment, if you ask my opinion expect to wait. Also, don't expect it to be the same the next time you ask me.

    EDIT: This may also just have something to do with my views on epistemology, but, meh.

  3. #13
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    2,158

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
    Mmkay, that makes sense, but how about the intrapersonal awareness part? I'm not even sure what my question is because I just don't understand how someone wouldn't be aware of how they feel.
    I believe it has much to do with being an introverted thinker. Most of the time, I really do live in my head. In my own little world. In my own zone. Within that zone, everything seems crystal clear. Just about every topic can be worked out cleanly inside my head. But when someone engages me, well, it's not that I'm incapable of telling them what's in my head or what I think/feel about something because I can. But........let's just say if they have a lot of time to sit down and really let me get it out, then I'll be much more effective at turning my thoughts and feelings into words. But, 90% of the time in the real world people are looking for a short, quick response. I don't really know how to give you a very short response to an issue that I have thought about/pondered in so much depth. With most topics, I have a tank full of views and thoughts on them.

    Like today someone asked me, "Do you think as a nation we spend too much money?" Well, I have a hard time answering that question in a brief way - I have a hard time "framing" my answer for the ESTJ who is asking it. If he wants to sit down and hash out all the nuances and angles of it - and look at the many reasons/areas that we do spend too much and also the many reasons/areas that we don't, then I can clearly portray my thoughts. But, I know he doesn't want to do that. So, my answer is something like, "Well, that's a pretty complicated issue. I can think of several examples on both sides of the argument, but yeah you are right, there does tend to be a lot of wasteful spending out there."

    Unless he has more time and wants to really listen, that's kind of the best answer I know how to give.

    Also, when people ask questions like this, I sometimes don't know where they are coming from. I don't always relate easily to what they might be looking for. I hate to call it being socially inept, but maybe that's the best phrase. Like if I'm at a casual gathering and someone asks a really simple question, I sometimes complicate it by thinking to myself:

    Is this person,
    (a) picking my brain because they really want to know the depths of what I think?
    (b) wanting to stir things up a bit (it happens quite a bit) and kind of debate an issue they feel strongly about
    (c) are they just wanting a very simple straightforward answer (probably most likely, but not necessarily the INTP's strength).

    Also, are they joking and saying things in a lighthearted way or are they looking for a more serious discussion?

    I can answer in any one of these ways, but I don't know which they're looking for. I'm looking for context first. In short, it's sometimes very difficult for me to take what I know in my head, the depth of an issue, and present it clearly to someone without some preparation. If I'm preparing a speech, then yes, I will communicate effectively. If it's on the spot and you want a quick answer - then, for the most part, I don't really know how I feel about it.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  4. #14
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Enneagram
    1w2
    Posts
    5,514

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    Probably one of (if not, the) biggest issues I've had with romantic partners. I do not even have a shred of desire to try to read your mind. I've got - what I consider - better things to do than mind read. Say it out loud. Hit me over the head with it. Be plain. Be simple. Speak up for yourself. Don't make me guess what you want or what you're thinking. It's just a waste of both of our times. If you tell me what you want, I'll do my very best to do it for you - I'll go out of my way for you - because I care about you. You just have to communicate effectively and directly. It's so very easy to do. "I want X." "I need Y." If it's within our power, we'll do it.
    And if you don't want to do it, it's called nagging. I think this whole thing about effective and direct communication is Catch-22...when it's wanted and when it's not wanted. And that is the mindreading your partner will have to do, the figuring out when. Will I be met with indifference or will I get a response?

    Just wanted to point that out.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  5. #15
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    2,158

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    And if you don't want to do it, it's called nagging. I think this whole thing about effective and direct communication is Catch-22...when it's wanted and when it's not wanted. And that is the mindreading your partner will have to do, the figuring out when. Will I be met with indifference or will I get a response?

    Just wanted to point that out.
    You raise a good point. I think this has been one of my big weaknesses in relationships, which kind of defeats my post saying "we'll do anything in our power for you." So, I'll rescind that and say this:

    What I've told my partners (and it has caused problems) is basically: I don't want to be "changed". I don't want to be molded into what you want me to be. I don't enjoy fitting into someone else's "boyfriend mold". At heart, we are iconoclasts. We desire that freedom. But, we are fiercely loyal if we are given that space and come to care about someone.

    So, this works:
    "I know you'll be working on some stuff this Saturday night, but it would be really important to me if you would come with me for an hour with my friends at dinner. You wouldn't have to hang out with us for hours afterwards, but it would really mean a lot to me to have you there over dinner." (This gives me the autonomy to say "no", but also lets me know how important it is to you. If I do choose the "no" option, it's very important that the other person is accepting of my decision and doesn't use it against me in future arguments.)

    or, as stated earlier:

    "I feel loved when you get me fresh flowers."

    This does not work:
    "You never go anywhere with me. You don't care about my feelings. You just want to do what you want to do."

    or,

    "How come you never get me flowers? Good boyfriends do stuff like that."

    That's so naggy. It's a form of coercion/manipulation. I just don't respond to things like that. If anything it drives a wedge between us - it creates more distance.

    We do get caught up in our own worlds and we do procrastinate and there will be times where it's not the right time to talk about certain issues, but the effectiveness and responsiveness one gets is in the approach they take with the INTP. My personal thoughts are that I am not someone else's caged animal. Give me autonomy to make decisions that I'm comfortable with. That really is the best approach with me. The more I'm beaten and battered with "you gotta go!" and "you gotta come!", the more I'm going to shut down to the idea. If it's my option and I know that people will be fine with either option I choose (this is key, don't judge me or beat me down if I don't choose YOUR option), then I might just surprise you and show up. And the next time too. And there will probably be fresh flowers on the table when we get home too.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  6. #16
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    6,028

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    I believe it has much to do with being an introverted thinker. Most of the time, I really do live in my head. In my own little world. In my own zone. Within that zone, everything seems crystal clear. Just about every topic can be worked out cleanly inside my head. But when someone engages me, well, it's not that I'm incapable of telling them what's in my head or what I think/feel about something because I can. But........let's just say if they have a lot of time to sit down and really let me get it out, then I'll be much more effective at turning my thoughts and feelings into words. But, 90% of the time in the real world people are looking for a short, quick response. I don't really know how to give you a very short response to an issue that I have thought about/pondered in so much depth. With most topics, I have a tank full of views and thoughts on them.

    Like today someone asked me, "Do you think as a nation we spend too much money?" Well, I have a hard time answering that question in a brief way - I have a hard time "framing" my answer for the ESTJ who is asking it. If he wants to sit down and hash out all the nuances and angles of it - and look at the many reasons/areas that we do spend too much and also the many reasons/areas that we don't, then I can clearly portray my thoughts. But, I know he doesn't want to do that. So, my answer is something like, "Well, that's a pretty complicated issue. I can think of several examples on both sides of the argument, but yeah you are right, there does tend to be a lot of wasteful spending out there."

    Unless he has more time and wants to really listen, that's kind of the best answer I know how to give.

    Also, when people ask questions like this, I sometimes don't know where they are coming from. I don't always relate easily to what they might be looking for. I hate to call it being socially inept, but maybe that's the best phrase. Like if I'm at a casual gathering and someone asks a really simple question, I sometimes complicate it by thinking to myself:

    Is this person,
    (a) picking my brain because they really want to know the depths of what I think?
    (b) wanting to stir things up a bit (it happens quite a bit) and kind of debate an issue they feel strongly about
    (c) are they just wanting a very simple straightforward answer (probably most likely, but not necessarily the INTP's strength).

    Also, are they joking and saying things in a lighthearted way or are they looking for a more serious discussion?

    I can answer in any one of these ways, but I don't know which they're looking for. I'm looking for context first. In short, it's sometimes very difficult for me to take what I know in my head, the depth of an issue, and present it clearly to someone without some preparation. If I'm preparing a speech, then yes, I will communicate effectively. If it's on the spot and you want a quick answer - then, for the most part, I don't really know how I feel about it.
    This is a fabulous explanation. SO many times in social situations, I do feel paralyzed when asked for a simple response. I may have thought about something a lot, but I see it as a web of thoughts tangled together, and I don't know which section of the web to untangle first, or even if it will make sense without the rest of the interlocking pieces. And I might not have time or even be able to properly convey my thoughts the way I want to. And then the strong P factor comes in and tells me that there's probably a huge piece of evidence that I'm not even aware of, so I better allow for that possibility to change my whole understanding of it.

    It's often hard for me to commit to how I feel when I know situations and feelings are transient and I might not have all the information needed to make an informed decision. Even about feelings.
    Something Witty

  7. #17
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    xkcd
    Enneagram
    9w1 sx/sp
    Socionics
    INT_
    Posts
    10,733

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
    Two things:



    I seen it happen but I can't comprehend it, INTPs explain! How does one not know how they feel or be unable to express their opinion? How can others squeeze it oudda ya?
    …just why do you need to know?


  8. #18
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    MBTI
    intp
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    1,292

    Default

    All these threads on INTP's in relationships just make me think "why the fuck would I bother?"

    There must be a lot of masochists with self-esteem issues out there, maybe girls who were abandoned by their daddies, who are drawn to the traits described (some of which I sadly have a tendency to though I really try to be as balanced as possible).
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    nnnn
    Posts
    1,633

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    All these threads on INTP's in relationships just make me think "why the fuck would I bother?"

    There must be a lot of masochists with self-esteem issues out there, maybe girls who were abandoned by their daddies, who are drawn to the traits described (some of which I sadly have a tendency to though I really try to be as balanced as possible).
    INTPs aren't that bad.

  10. #20
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    2,158

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    All these threads on INTP's in relationships just make me think "why the fuck would I bother?"

    There must be a lot of masochists with self-esteem issues out there, maybe girls who were abandoned by their daddies, who are drawn to the traits described (some of which I sadly have a tendency to though I really try to be as balanced as possible).
    ENFP's like us. INFJ's like us. Sometimes ENFJ's and INFP's too. We must be doing something right.

    But, yeah, I see what you're saying. I think INxx's are pretty "prickly" in trying to get along with long-term.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

Similar Threads

  1. [INTP] INTP relationship patterns and how to break them?
    By bluebell in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 08-30-2012, 02:14 AM
  2. [INTP] How to seduce an INTP...
    By sculpting in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 977
    Last Post: 05-13-2010, 02:10 PM
  3. [INTP] How to get this INTP to like me?
    By goodgrief in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 67
    Last Post: 04-25-2010, 09:20 PM
  4. [INTP] How to seduce as an INTP
    By laughingebony in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 398
    Last Post: 04-05-2010, 02:45 AM
  5. [INTP] How to Keep an INTP Man Happy
    By FFF in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 01-25-2008, 03:53 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO