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  1. #61
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoom View Post
    I took an actual IQ test administered by a psychologist and all that jazz, and earned a result of 145. My brother did the same and tested at 160, and is an idiot who leeches off of other people and wouldn't know a (academic or otherwise) work ethic if it kicked him in the nuts.


    But they do give us an indisputably accurate assessment of a person's intellectual abilities, noone here is questioning that claim, is that right?



    Quote Originally Posted by Litvyak View Post
    Your personal IQ does not change over the years, this is a basic rule of IQ testing. You ARE getting "cleverer" until your late twenties, and you will get "duller" afterwards, but your score should remain the same, since properly supervised tests compensate for your advantages and disadvantages based on your age alone. Your IQ is calculated based on your efficiency on the test AND your age.
    Can you cite any research that shows that such tests exist and are possible to institute? Can you cite any credible research that is supported by scientific consensus that states that a person's IQ does not change? Or are you prepared to admit that you just 'made it up' or 'read it somewhere, don't remember where'?


    Quote Originally Posted by Litvyak View Post
    Though the range of difference is usually less than 5-10 points.
    .

    Where is this data coming from? INTJcentral?
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  2. #62
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    I will concede that the IQ test might give an accurate portrayal of someone's ability to perform CERTAIN cognitive tasks.

    And I can guarantee you that I'd score wayyyy higher if the IQ measured pure linguistic ability or other kinds of abilities, but it does not. I mean: It does, among other things. However, the 'other things' pull me down generally.

  3. #63
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    I will concede that the IQ test might give an accurate portrayal of someone's ability to perform CERTAIN cognitive tasks. :
    In your judgment, what are these cognitive tasks and how accurately can they be measured?
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  4. #64
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    Working within the parameters of the multiple intelligences theory, IQ seems to largely focus on logical-mathematical intelligence. So at best that's what it measures.

  5. #65
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    Can you cite any research that shows that such tests exist and are possible to institute?
    I have neither time nor energy to engage in a "IQ-tests-are-stupid-and-so-are-you" kind of verbal nonsense.
    Feel free to believe whatever you'd like.

    (caveat: "scientific consensus" is almost impossible on such controversial topic in soft sciences)

  6. #66
    Self sustaining supernova Zoom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    But they do give us an indisputably accurate assessment of a person's intellectual abilities, no one here is questioning that claim, is that right?
    Peguy and LL are already discussing this topic, but indisputable? Not necessarily. The test's origins and eventual modifications along with its inherent limitations (from what the creator Binet spoke of in regards to its specific design and purpose) can give the impression that intelligence is far too broad a concept to quantify with a single number. It seems he insisted that intelligence is influenced by a number of factors, changes over time and can only be compared among children with similar backgrounds.

    With the introduction of Howard Gardner's definition of seven types of intelligences (which I believe is what Peguy is speaking of, though I may be incorrect) in the 1980's - well after the current type of IQ test was developed, if I remember correctly - I think it is entirely possible to dispute a stance of the IQ test being an accurate assessment of a person's intellectual abilities.

    Granted, this is after never hearing of any IQ tests that have developed wider parameters of what they test in terms of types of intelligence. Hearing something of that nature could change my thoughts on the matter.

  7. #67
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    In your judgment, what are these cognitive tasks and how accurately can they be measured?
    From what I have observed, these tests measure your ability to notice patterns - mathematical, spatial or linguistic - more than anything else. Some more in-depth cognitive tests also evaluate skills such as general knowledge, logical deduction, mathematical ability, spatial skills, pattern recognition, memory, and problem-solving skills.

    I have taken two psychological tests for my aunt and her friend, both of whom were getting their MA and PhD respectively in psychology. So they had to give psychological tests to different people as a part of their studies - real cognitive tests. These tests check a wide range of skills, most of which were mentioned in the previous paragraph.

    In these tests, my highest part was the general knowledge, linguistic, and verbal areas; my lowest results were the spatial skills and mathematical 'abilities' sections (more like disabilities, but whatever).

    This result also corresponds to national standardized tests we did every year, where my results hardly ever differed. Alas, in national standardized tests, I score about 15 percentile on spatial skills as opposed to 99 percentile on verbal scores, including language mechanics, reading, etc. Math resulted in a 94-98 percentile, depending on the year. Spatial skills, as indicated, were catastrophic. This is also reflected in my IQ score, I'm sure.

    Your normal paper-based IQ test focuses on pattern recognition, spatial skills, some linguistic challenges, and some mathematical aspects. Since my spatial skills are abysmal, yeah.....

    I score significantly higher on tests that focus more on linguistic abilities (words, concepts, pattern recognition with words) than those that focus on spatial skills and pattern recognition with numbers and objects.

    It would be interesting to know if my type has anything to do with this tendency.

  8. #68
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoom View Post
    I took an actual IQ test administered by a psychologist and all that jazz, and earned a result of 145. My brother did the same and tested at 160, and is an idiot who leeches off of other people and wouldn't know a (academic or otherwise) work ethic if it kicked him in the nuts.

    Results of that test do not take into account what one will choose to do with their inherent abilities.
    So true! LAZY does not discriminate.

    I think ambition and life skills take you farther in life than IQ - though there are correlations with higher IQ and higher income or maybe it was the percentage of higher IQ individuals who are millionaires or something like that. There's another thread on that somewhere.

    Also, in the real world social skills go a loooooooooong way and you can't really test for that on paper.
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  9. #69
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Heh most of the posts in this thread are only tangentially related to the first post (including this one ). Someone need only put the word "IQ" in the title of their thread and a passionate discussion will start out of nowhere.
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  10. #70
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Heh most of the posts in this thread are only tangentially related to the first post (including this one ). Someone need only put the word "IQ" in the title of their thread and a passionate discussion will start out of nowhere.
    With me, a passionate discussion can start even by putting a mundane thing like 'rock' or 'air' or RAWWWWWWWWR in the title.



    Oh, and tangent is my middle name, so....But I think the people on the forum are (at least grudgingly) tolerant because they realize it all has a connection in my brain.

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