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  1. #11
    Member niberrizbe25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VitaB View Post
    Thank you, that's a great idea!

    I have this habbit on buses or trains when I'm bored where I take out a piece of paper and "people watch" in writing. Except instead of writing down what I see, gather all the information I obsereve about the people and "make up" (or really, make very educated and intuitive guesses) about their lives, personalities and where they are headed. It's a lot of fun!
    I should do that for more productive things I guess.
    That sounds like fun! I think I will do this additionally to sharpen my intuition. Thank you for the ideas as well!

  2. #12
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Interesting. I sometimes see my Ne getting in the way of my Ti. I'll be doing some in-depth research/reading on a topic, trying to learn it inside and out and while doing that I will read something that causes my mind to completely go off in another direction. So, I'll start researching that new thing. And then that will cause me to come across a 3rd thing, so I'll start reading about that.

    It sounds pretty nerdy, but what I sometimes do is just quickly jot down those 2 new ideas that came into my head so that I can research them later. Then I'm able to stay focused on the original thing that I was researching. I can do it thoroughly and see it through to completion and then I've got those other 2 really cool ideas dangling out there like a carrot - I know that as soon as I get through the first thing (if it's something important that I want to complete), then I've got 2 more really interesting things to look into.

    It might be harder for ENTP's to resist the temptation to keep jumping around to other things. When my Ne goes into hyper mode, I either:

    a) let it run wild (because I know it's momentarily getting me out of Ti - which is good for me)

    b) just keep adding my Ne ideas to my list of new things I can research later, while staying engaged in Ti. If Ti is engaged in something important, then Ne is valuable but also kind of a nuisance. It's like Ti will say to Ne, "Hey thanks for that great idea/observation! I'll mark it down and get back to it later. That will be fun. Now leave me alone while I finish this." And Ne keeps popping up with new stuff because that's just the nature of Ne.

    ...
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


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  3. #13
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Can't seem to edit my above post. But, I was going to add that my Ti is quite capable of "kicking Ne out of the room" so that it can stay focused. In regards to the OP, maybe that's something an ENTP could practice?!
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    Can't seem to edit my above post. But, I was going to add that my Ti is quite capable of "kicking Ne out of the room" so that it can stay focused. In regards to the OP, maybe that's something an ENTP could practice?!
    takes a LOT of work and is mentally strenuous...i found its easier to work with Ne then against it...for me anyways


    though that depends on mood too

  5. #15
    Senior Member Shimmy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    Interesting. I sometimes see my Ne getting in the way of my Ti. I'll be doing some in-depth research/reading on a topic, trying to learn it inside and out and while doing that I will read something that causes my mind to completely go off in another direction. So, I'll start researching that new thing. And then that will cause me to come across a 3rd thing, so I'll start reading about that.

    It sounds pretty nerdy, but what I sometimes do is just quickly jot down those 2 new ideas that came into my head so that I can research them later. Then I'm able to stay focused on the original thing that I was researching. I can do it thoroughly and see it through to completion and then I've got those other 2 really cool ideas dangling out there like a carrot - I know that as soon as I get through the first thing (if it's something important that I want to complete), then I've got 2 more really interesting things to look into.

    It might be harder for ENTP's to resist the temptation to keep jumping around to other things. When my Ne goes into hyper mode, I either:

    a) let it run wild (because I know it's momentarily getting me out of Ti - which is good for me)

    b) just keep adding my Ne ideas to my list of new things I can research later, while staying engaged in Ti. If Ti is engaged in something important, then Ne is valuable but also kind of a nuisance. It's like Ti will say to Ne, "Hey thanks for that great idea/observation! I'll mark it down and get back to it later. That will be fun. Now leave me alone while I finish this." And Ne keeps popping up with new stuff because that's just the nature of Ne.

    ...
    Sounds like me.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    Can't seem to edit my above post. But, I was going to add that my Ti is quite capable of "kicking Ne out of the room" so that it can stay focused. In regards to the OP, maybe that's something an ENTP could practice?!
    Nop, Ne pretty much always wants me to keep doing or thinking of new stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by thisGuy View Post
    takes a LOT of work and is mentally strenuous...i found its easier to work with Ne then against it...for me anyways


    though that depends on mood too
    Sounds like me again.
    (removed)

  6. #16

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    Here's an analogy:

    It often feels like I'm trying to assemble an elegant arc structure from multiple large stones. "Focus on one thing at a time" doesn't really work for me- it's impossible to build the arc by dealing with one stone at a time, because you need all the stones to be in place simultaneously for the arc to stand without support. It's a delicate, risky and ambitious process which can sometimes result in epic failure.

    Alternatively, you need to put all sorts of support structures in place before loading the stones- and these "support structures" represent the seemingly endless blabber that Ne is so capable of spouting.

    Following the arc of stones analogy, Ti acts as an agent of efficiency, and is deeply concerned with structural integrity. While Ne is the idealistic architect, Ti is the rational engineer. In the first scenario, it ensures that the stones selected are the ideal stones for the job. It notices when any of the stones are out of place, and ensures that they are kept neatly in perfect alignment. This minimizes the possibility of structural failure, or collapse. In the second scenario, it gets rid of the "support structures" that would otherwise ruin the beauty of the arc for the casual observer.
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  7. #17
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by visaisahero View Post
    Here's an analogy:

    It often feels like I'm trying to assemble an elegant arc structure from multiple large stones. "Focus on one thing at a time" doesn't really work for me- it's impossible to build the arc by dealing with one stone at a time, because you need all the stones to be in place simultaneously for the arc to stand without support. It's a delicate, risky and ambitious process which can sometimes result in epic failure.

    Alternatively, you need to put all sorts of support structures in place before loading the stones- and these "support structures" represent the seemingly endless blabber that Ne is so capable of spouting.

    Following the arc of stones analogy, Ti acts as an agent of efficiency, and is deeply concerned with structural integrity. While Ne is the idealistic architect, Ti is the rational engineer. In the first scenario, it ensures that the stones selected are the ideal stones for the job. It notices when any of the stones are out of place, and ensures that they are kept neatly in perfect alignment. This minimizes the possibility of structural failure, or collapse. In the second scenario, it gets rid of the "support structures" that would otherwise ruin the beauty of the arc for the casual observer.
    Interesting analogy. I like it. It's been said that INTP's like to have "complete information" before they "launch out". Using your analogy, my Ti wants to (I'm not saying that this is the best way of going at it), but it desperately wants to know that the rocks selected are, without a doubt, the right rocks.

    It's like my secondary Ne has shown me the vision of what could be (the beautiful arc) - I can see it in my head - but, Ti doesn't want me to start building until there is certainty. Ti says, "We wouldn't want to start building and then realize that there was a better way to go about this. Let's just keep learning about different types of stone and different structural methods until we have exhausted all possibilities."

    Your analogy - especially, where you said that it can sometimes result in a mammoth failure - made me think that ENTP's are probably more likely to launch out too early, so it's hit-and-miss. Sometimes they're going to get amazing results and sometimes, as you say, it will be an epic failure.

    INTP's, on the other hand, are probably more likely to wait 30 years before launching out and, even then, at any hint of something going wrong, they'll stop, go back to the drawing board, and make sure they haven't missed something. If they finally get it built, 99% chance it's going to be pretty phenomenal. But, they run the risk of never getting it built at all.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  8. #18

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    ^one of my really, really good friends is an INTP. I really admire how he's almost always correct because he has the discipline to take the time to be absolutely certain of himself, and he in turn admires (I think) my guts to dare to fail by leaping in with both feet.

    I value his perspective on things and he values mine, and I think we're both better off for it!

    The relationship between the Ne architect and Ti engineer is symbiotic- in the INTP, the architect is subordinate to the engineer, who tells him what can or cannot be done. In the ENTP, the engineer is subordinate to the architect, who often has unrealistic demands.

    Regardless, in both cases, the more equal the relationship, and the better the communication between the two, the better the final outcome. The moment you have an overbearing boss who thinks he knows everything, things are going to get ugly.
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  9. #19
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    In the ENTP, the engineer is subordinate to the architect, who often has unrealistic demands.
    Yeah, I think you're referring to an enfp here
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

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  10. #20

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    No, I'm not. I think perhaps you've misunderstood my point?

    The 'architect' is my personification of the Ne function on its own, without any input from any auxiliary function, be it the ENTP's Ti or ENFP's Fi.

    I'm not saying that ENTPs ourselves are necessarily unrealistic- that's a subjective statement and a hasty generalization. Some ENTPs will be unrealistic, and some ENFPs will be remarkably grounded. That's more dependent, in my opinion, on the maturity of the individual functions and the interactions between them.
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