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  1. #51
    Obsession. Lethe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodgrief View Post
    All the INTJs on here seem a lot mentally stronger than me.
    There's a key word: seem.

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    In some ways Ni doms doubt themselves (and everything) more than any other types.

    INTJs are very good at showing a strong, confident exterior [...].
    Agreed. (To goodgrief, or anyone reading this post), even when I'm extremely nervous, I always appear confident in front of a crowd, and to other strangers. Beyond my individual doubts, I value being decisive, assertive, and proactive --- attributes that allow me to organize my environment. I dislike influencing the external world with indecision, so I generally accept my limited capacity for the said activity, move on, and learn what I can from the situation.

    However, confront me during my introspective moments, and you'll find that I second-guess thoughts very frequently. Perhaps this is the downside of seeing multiple interpretations of everything, and the desire to integrate different viewpoints into a model. Suddenly, I'll change from a self-controlled being to the most doubtful, and confused person in the room. It reverts back when I have to get things done, and there's no time to over-analyze every possible flaw -- only for mindful action and keen adaptability.

    Quote Originally Posted by goodgrief View Post
    I consistently score INTJ, and I match the description mostly, but from that description and others it seems if you are an INTJ you are always confident in your ability, able to keep at something and never second guess themselves. But I do a lot. i have social anxiety and often feel down about my own ability to achieve both socially and academically, and I sometimes have so little motivation to do anything. Is this normal or at least an occasional occurrence for an INTJ?
    On some levels, goodgrief, your troubles with the academia strongly reminds me of my own, but at one point, the question of "So what? What are you going to do about it?" arises. I'm also naturally blessed with the grace of an elephant when it comes to socializing, and the worst case of ADHD for paying attention and completing dull tasks. It seems like events would turn out rather colorful from the start, and the challenges I happen to encounter did not disappoint expectations: at 15, I pretty much failed in everything I touched, except for 'on-the-side' obscure interests. And unfortunately, I didn't have the communication skills to explain my sudden change in attitude -- which started soon after the realization that I severely lacked the some of the most vital traits in this society.

    Getting by on a daily basis was not easy, like you, I had little motivation to do anything beyond things that weren't immediately relevant to society's idea of 'success'. I simply wanted to figure out what life meant for me, and to explore the extent of my mind and values. Everyone thought I was wasting my parent's time and money on introspection, and a part of myself had agreed with them, but subconsciously, I knew I couldn't go down that path anymore. For the next two years, a battle of two inner wills drove me up the wall, causing me to become mistrustful of my "softer", dreamier judgment.

    Fast-forward six years later to age 21: every failure, achievement, skill, characteristic, knowledge and wisdom I had began to crystallize into a more global perspective, allowing me to overcome previous difficulties with relative ease. I use my advantages to offset the disadvantages, synthesized opposing personalities, and forced myself to cooperate with the lazier, slower voice, or whatever my ambitious self likes calling it. And the thing is, it works. Very well. Just don't give up -- even when you fail (trust me, this will occur a lot in the beginning). Then proceed to practice your weaker attributes like hell with the intention of getting better each time. Optimize your strategies and tactics whenever you can, preferably with the help of numerous references.

    ....

    Looking back now, I sometimes think we place too much importance on bemoaning and criticizing the abilities we don't have, instead of aiming to improve them by following our natural rhythm and needs (however "strange" they may be). If I had to redo the last six years, I'd say this to myself: "Self, you're weird compared to most you know. Maybe even a little nuts. You have different desires, and there's no point in trying to jam yourself into a conventional system, thinking that's the only way to personal achievement. So let's look outside of the box. What can you possibly do to synchronize your current skills and tendencies to your goals? Don't discard your quirks [ahem, like ADHD], use them. If you can figure out the critical elements and its formula, I swear you'll nail them down cold."

    ======

    TL;DR version: Many skills are improvable, if you're willing to dedicate the energy to make them work. Everyone has their problems and times where their "strengths" undermine their best intentions, yet understanding that potential and incorporating those benefits into one's long-term strategy is what moves a person forward.

    Furthermore, you can't possibly be worse than someone who has earned academic probation/suspension at 3 schools for three years, performed every single procrastinating technique known to mankind, and holds arguably the worst attendance record in high school. There's still a great deal you can change right now, step by step. If someone with an unpredictable attention-span and poor social skills can turn their act around by 180 degrees, you can too.

    No magic required, honest. Only faith in yourself, smart training, and being resourceful. It took me six years to learn how to command my ADHD and three to socialize. Perhaps you could do much better. If you want help or additional tips, PM me. I know practically everything about there is to know about failing, concentration, and motivation.
    "I cannot expect even my own art to provide all of the answers -- only to hope it keeps asking the right questions." -- Grace Hartigan

    Enneagram: Tritype - 1w9, 5 (balanced wings), 2w3; Overall Variant: So/Sx
    SLOAN: rCoa|I|
    Functional Preferences: Ni, Te/Fi, Ti, Se, Fe, Si, Ne


    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    Looking into the eyes of a [Ni user] is like peeking through a portal into a parallel universe.

  2. #52
    One day and the next Rainne's Avatar
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    well intjs are human

    or are they...


  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethe View Post
    There's a key word: seem.



    Agreed. (To goodgrief, or anyone reading this post), even when I'm extremely nervous, I always appear confident in front of a crowd, and to other strangers. Beyond my individual doubts, I value being decisive, assertive, and proactive --- attributes that allow me to organize my environment. I dislike influencing the external world with indecision, so I generally accept my limited capacity for the said activity, move on, and learn what I can from the situation.

    However, confront me during my introspective moments, and you'll find that I second-guess thoughts very frequently. Perhaps this is the downside of seeing multiple interpretations of everything, and the desire to integrate different viewpoints into a model. Suddenly, I'll change from a self-controlled being to the most doubtful, and confused person in the room. It reverts back when I have to get things done, and there's no time to over-analyze every possible flaw -- only for mindful action and keen adaptability.



    On some levels, goodgrief, your troubles with the academia strongly reminds me of my own, but at one point, the question of "So what? What are you going to do about it?" arises. I'm also naturally blessed with the grace of an elephant when it comes to socializing, and the worst case of ADHD for paying attention and completing dull tasks. It seems like events would turn out rather colorful from the start, and the challenges I happen to encounter did not disappoint expectations: at 15, I pretty much failed in everything I touched, except for 'on-the-side' obscure interests. And unfortunately, I didn't have the communication skills to explain my sudden change in attitude -- which started soon after the realization that I severely lacked the some of the most vital traits in this society.

    Getting by on a daily basis was not easy, like you, I had little motivation to do anything beyond things that weren't immediately relevant to society's idea of 'success'. I simply wanted to figure out what life meant for me, and to explore the extent of my mind and values. Everyone thought I was wasting my parent's time and money on introspection, and a part of myself had agreed with them, but subconsciously, I knew I couldn't go down that path anymore. For the next two years, a battle of two inner wills drove me up the wall, causing me to become mistrustful of my "softer", dreamier judgment.

    Fast-forward six years later to age 21: every failure, achievement, skill, characteristic, knowledge and wisdom I had began to crystallize into a more global perspective, allowing me to overcome previous difficulties with relative ease. I use my advantages to offset the disadvantages, synthesized opposing personalities, and forced myself to cooperate with the lazier, slower voice, or whatever my ambitious self likes calling it. And the thing is, it works. Very well. Just don't give up -- even when you fail (trust me, this will occur a lot in the beginning). Then proceed to practice your weaker attributes like hell with the intention of getting better each time. Optimize your strategies and tactics whenever you can, preferably with the help of numerous references.

    ....

    Looking back now, I sometimes think we place too much importance on bemoaning and criticizing the abilities we don't have, instead of aiming to improve them by following our natural rhythm and needs (however "strange" they may be). If I had to redo the last six years, I'd say this to myself: "Self, you're weird compared to most you know. Maybe even a little nuts. You have different desires, and there's no point in trying to jam yourself into a conventional system, thinking that's the only way to personal achievement. So let's look outside of the box. What can you possibly do to synchronize your current skills and tendencies to your goals? Don't discard your quirks [ahem, like ADHD], use them. If you can figure out the critical elements and its formula, I swear you'll nail them down cold."

    ======

    TL;DR version: Many skills are improvable, if you're willing to dedicate the energy to make them work. Everyone has their problems and times where their "strengths" undermine their best intentions, yet understanding that potential and incorporating those benefits into one's long-term strategy is what moves a person forward.

    Furthermore, you can't possibly be worse than someone who has earned academic probation/suspension at 3 schools for three years, performed every single procrastinating technique known to mankind, and holds arguably the worst attendance record in high school. There's still a great deal you can change right now, step by step. If someone with an unpredictable attention-span and poor social skills can turn their act around by 180 degrees, you can too.

    No magic required, honest. Only faith in yourself, smart training, and being resourceful. It took me six years to learn how to command my ADHD and three to socialize. Perhaps you could do much better. If you want help or additional tips, PM me. I know practically everything about there is to know about failing, concentration, and motivation.
    Thanks. This is probably the most helpful post I've ever read. I do share many of these problems that you have as well, such as ADHD (predominantly innatentive) and this is very comforting information to know.

  4. #54
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    To be honest I don't think that INTJs are really that much self confidant as they look. It is just that in most cases they blindly do what their Ni tells them to do. However since Ni is often correct about things INTJs looks so self confidant.

    Actually I have a problem taking a credit for some things that I have done since it isn't that I come up with this or that willingly. It just that many things came to me out of no where so I simply apply them if possible.


    Can anyone relate ?

  5. #55
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Actually I have a problem taking a credit for some things that I have done since it isn't that I come up with this or that willingly. It just that many things came to me out of no where so I simply apply them if possible.

    Can anyone relate ?
    To me, credit is often beside the point. I know it is important to many people, so I do my best to ensure others get the credit they deserve. It is enough for me to see the things I do succeed, to see my ideas put into practice. I would rather have my good idea implemented but someone else get the credit, than receive praise for doing something I consider foolish or ill-advised. I have, in fact, occasionally engineered the first case and unfortunately endured the second.

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