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[INTJ] Can an INTJ doubt themselves?

Fecal McAngry

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Pride goes before a fall. Confidence is good. Overconfidence is not. It is a balance. Personally, I always have doubts. That's what the contingencies are for and the excessive effort to think forward on the things that might go wrong so you can plan to avoid them.

Hubris - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There is a strong will, independence and confidence with an INTJ usually. This can also go horribly wrong. Jeffrey Skilling at Enron was probably an INTJ. A more recent example might be Greenspan and deregulation.

Greenspan is absolutely an INTJ, as was his mentor Ayn Rand. The problem with AG wasn't INTJ hubris however, or deregulation, but that he (warning: political philosophy ahead) was manning a system--central banking--that is inherently designed to produce booms and busts...
 

tcda

psicobolche
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Greenspan is absolutely an INTJ, as was his mentor Ayn Rand. The problem with AG wasn't INTJ hubris however, or deregulation, but that he (warning: political philosophy ahead) was manning a system--central banking--that is inherently designed to produce booms and busts...

Not wishing to get off topic but was Ayn Raynd actually Greenspan's mentor?

I find it hard to believe that anyone with AR as a mentor would ever actually be employed by any government anywhere on earth.
 

Fecal McAngry

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Not wishing to get off topic but was Ayn Raynd actually Greenspan's mentor?

I find it hard to believe that anyone with AR as a mentor would ever actually be employed by any government anywhere on earth.
Yes, Ayn loved AG. It is supremely ironic that AG would end up running the Fed; it's like someone training arduously to be a Rabbi for many years and then running off to head the Third Reich...

Alan Greenspan and the Death of Ayn Rand

Alan Greenspan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

Aleksei

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Who else here thinks Greenspan plowed Ayn Rand?
 

capricorn009

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I'm not sure. Same with ENTJs and the power thing, it seems that some either want power and control of everything, while some simply have power thrust upon them. I
was always considered intellectual and imaginative but my ability to trust my instincts
and go with intuition to learn new skills made me realize being an independent thinker
was a power in its own. Why I resent power because eventually realizing you don't
have to be submissive can cause people to turn on you.
 

Zarathustra

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Pride goes before a fall. Confidence is good. Overconfidence is not. It is a balance. Personally, I always have doubts. That's what the contingencies are for and the excessive effort to think forward on the things that might go wrong so you can plan to avoid them.

Hubris - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There is a strong will, independence and confidence with an INTJ usually. This can also go horribly wrong. Jeffrey Skilling at Enron was probably an INTJ. A more recent example might be Greenspan and deregulation.

If Alan Greenspan is an INTJ, he definitely disappoints me. To be so fucking narrow-mindedly obsessed with free market ideology does not seem very worthy of INTJhood, in my opinion. I was a college fucking econ student and I knew his (and the Republican's, in general) borderline obsessive faith in free markets was leading us into disaster. I would like to blame it on Ti and him being an INTP, but I'm really not sure if that's the case. Most everywhere you see him labeled as an INTJ.

As for Schilling -- I was reasonably young when it happened, and the vast majority of my knowledge about him came from that documentary "The Smartest Guys In The Room", so I'm a bit ignorant. I mostly remember his rant about Social Darwinism and how he and his minions were superior to all the "idiots" not working at his firm. Very well could be a retarded INTJ...
 

goodgrief

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If Alan Greenspan is an INTJ, he definitely disappoints me. To be so fucking narrow-mindedly obsessed with free market ideology does not seem very worthy of INTJhood, in my opinion. I was a college fucking econ student and I knew his (and the Republican's, in general) borderline obsessive faith in free markets was leading us into disaster. I would like to blame it on Ti and him being an INTP, but I'm really not sure if that's the case. Most everywhere you see him labeled as an INTJ.

As for Schilling -- I was reasonably young when it happened, and the vast majority of my knowledge about him came from that documentary "The Smartest Guys In The Room", so I'm a bit ignorant. I mostly remember his rant about Social Darwinism and how he and his minions were superior to all the "idiots" not working at his firm. Very well could be a retarded INTJ...

Well I have no idea who this guy is so don't shoot me, but if he's similar to an INTJ, but is narrow minded and putting faith in something illogically, could he be an INFJ? With a strong J?
 

Rebe

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If Alan Greenspan is an INTJ, he definitely disappoints me. To be so fucking narrow-mindedly obsessed with free market ideology does not seem very worthy of INTJhood, in my opinion. I was a college fucking econ student and I knew his (and the Republican's, in general) borderline obsessive faith in free markets was leading us into disaster. I would like to blame it on Ti and him being an INTP, but I'm really not sure if that's the case. Most everywhere you see him labeled as an INTJ.

I thought Ayn Rand is a clear INTJ? All the INTJs I know worships her, absolutely worships her.
 

Aleksei

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I know at least one INTJ who thinks (correctly I might add) that she was retarded.
 

Rebe

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An INTJ told me to read one of her books - good writing skills - the content annoyed me...a lot. She could be ENTJ...possibly...
 

themightybob

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I dont agree with Rand in many ways and i certainly dont worship her. She is the epitome of an unhealthy, self-serving intj.
 

Aleksei

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Are INTJs even physically capable of not being self-serving?
 

WordGeek

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I was just coming in to say this. No one can be as hard on us as we are on ourselves. Self-doubt, over-analyzing, second guessing anything relationship related. Not that these things can't be lessened. They can and it takes time but they're always there for us. There are areas I'm supremely confident in and always have been. There are areas I had to put a lot of effort into changing too.

Absolutely agree. Self-doubt and over-analyzing (and I don't think it is only personal relationships) are probably what helps INTJ's put things in perspective to everyting else. Strangely enough, most people only seem to perceive self-confidence or arrogance, where there might be self-doubt. The better you learn to cope with it (and I don't think I every fully will) the better.
 

Little_Sticks

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People jump on grenades to save others, so I'd say yes.

If throwing the grenade back or finding a way to keep the group from getting grenades thrown at them to begin with instead of jumping on a grenade in the spur of the moment means INTJs are self-serving then...you know what I'm not even going to finish that.
 

Aleksei

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If throwing the grenade back or finding a way to keep the group from getting grenades thrown at them to begin with instead of jumping on a grenade in the spur of the moment means INTJs are self-serving then...you know what I'm not even going to finish that.
Don't worry I'm not passing judgment. I'm no better, nor are most NTs. ;)
 

neptunesnet

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If Alan Greenspan is an INTJ, he definitely disappoints me. To be so fucking narrow-mindedly obsessed with free market ideology does not seem very worthy of INTJhood, in my opinion. I was a college fucking econ student and I knew his (and the Republican's, in general) borderline obsessive faith in free markets was leading us into disaster.

Type has nothing to do with an individual's personal political philosophy (what alliteration) or intelligence. Actually, in some ways, it would make sense that some INTJs like Greenspan are free market advocators (although I personally disagree with) and that they have an obsessive, almost child-like obstinacy to obtain that system. Sounds like under-developed Fi, which is common in the tertiary spot (see ENTPs and tert Fe). It's much of the reason why INTJs in general are rather hit or miss for me. Their Fi is either completely under-developed, developing, or so fine-tuned they confuse themselves for INFPs :)

I would like to blame it on Ti and him being an INTP, but I'm really not sure if that's the case. Most everywhere you see him labeled as an INTJ.

Function doesn't explain behavior. It would similar to my saying, for example, that every time I look at the social interaction objectively and promote social harmony I'm using Fe even though that's obviously not the case.

I mostly remember his rant about Social Darwinism and how he and his minions were superior to all the "idiots" not working at his firm. Very well could be a retarded INTJ...

Or just an INTJ who happens to be a self-serving, hypocritical bastard. He isn't any more the exception to his type than the most intelligent INTJs are the norm.


EDIT: @theOP - Like most posters here have said, yes INTJs can doubt themselves. In fact, some of them can be the most critical and judgmental of themselves. However, I think enneatype has a lot to do with how that is manifests in the individual and to what degree they do it.
 
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