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  1. #31
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Way to get caught on the details of the anecdotes and miss the main point. Some INTPs you are.
    Par for the course, for the ones who don't exercise their aux functions...

  2. #32
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Anyways, all types can and will exhibit the entire range of human behavior. The difference will be in that person's cognitive justifications and processes for that behavior. For an INTP, they can certainly be a stick in the mud when faced with situations they don't think offer them any real possibility of learning something new. Or, they're just bums.
    That.

    Especially when there's a Ti+Si combo in play, "mudsticking" is more likely to occur.

    For INTP:
    - Doesn't want to be bothered / doesn't want to invest energy in something imagined as boring or intrusive or controlling in some way.
    - Is insensitive to the emotional/relational needs of others or the impact of their refusal on the relationship.
    - Doesn't like to look incompetent at something or look "dumb."

    SJs probably can be sticks in the mud simply because they tend to not do things that are unfamiliar, because they don't expect they will enjoy them based on what they know they enjoy. INTPs may be the opposite, in that they will avoid the familiar if they think everything of use has already been extracted from it.
    Yup. Thank you for clarifying an example of how, while the behavior might look the same, the motivation can be different.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #33
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    lol @ some of the INTP responses in this thread. Way to get caught on the details of the anecdotes and miss the main point. Some INTPs you are.


    Anyways, all types can and will exhibit the entire range of human behavior. The difference will be in that person's cognitive justifications and processes for that behavior. For an INTP, they can certainly be a stick in the mud when faced with situations they don't think offer them any real possibility of learning something new. Or, they're just bums.

    While your first example is a tad bizarre in that she wasn't reflecting the interaction styles of the group [INTPs do this a lot], your second example is a case where the INTP has made up his mind and simply will not budge.

    SJs probably can be sticks in the mud simply because they tend to not do things that are unfamiliar, because they don't expect they will enjoy them based on what they know they enjoy. INTPs may be the opposite, in that they will avoid the familiar if they think everything of use has already been extracted from it.
    This response, Jennifer's, and the examples listed by others previously, have really helped, and pretty much answered my question.

    Thanks guys! You showed me that I wasn't crazy after all, lol.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
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  4. #34
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    LOL, only in SJ-land is "a stick in the mud" proven by its opposite!

  5. #35
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    To the other previous posters on this page:

    Firstly... y'all need to read the OP a little more clearly. I recognize that some of you, e.g. kelric, meant well in your comments, and I appreciate it, but that type of discussion is not what this thread is about.

    What matters here is the broad statement, and not the little details.

    Thirdly, please do me a favor and leave your bias at the door. Don't interpret this as yet another SJ-NT conflict, or, even worse, "those SJs being dense, stupid and ignorant again". That's not even remotely what this is. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    lol @ some of the INTP responses in this thread. Way to get caught on the details of the anecdotes and miss the main point. Some INTPs you are.
    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Par for the course, for the ones who don't exercise their aux functions...
    I'd like to enter a guilty plea. I realized I wasn't on point about half-way through my post and just figured I'd go ahead and complete my thoughts. I ranted a bit because communications with SJ's are some of the most perplexing and confusing things that happen in my daily life. I want to understand them better and I want to get along with them better, but we're often just worlds apart. It's frustrating.

    Back to the point at hand: I think INTP's appear to be sticks-in-the-mud to many people, because we are so iconoclastic and non-conformist. That, coupled with people not always getting our humor, we can definitely come off as killjoys.

    And this might sound kind of strange, but I don't see myself as "set in my ways" as much as I am just determined to "not be set in other people's ways". I often find myself trying to slip out of any kind of mold that someone might be casting me in.

    I remember an instance where an ExFJ was planning this big event and she was telling me what my "role" was going to be in the whole thing. I was like, "role? what if I don't even show up? then what?" She says, "You have to go! It's important. You WILL be there and this will be your role." The more that continued, I just finally said, "I'm just going to tell you flat out that I'm not coming. So you'll have to find someone else to fill the role."

    She was mad and actually made a remark similar to calling me a "stick-in-the-mud". So, yeah, I think other's see us that way a lot.

  6. #36
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    I'm not sure how much of this "look, those are just details stuff" is aimed at me, but . . . Geez, you make a joke about how you think church is boring (a common opinion, I'm fairly certain) and people start acting like you killed the last of the pandas. Someone can make a joke about a comment in a Presidential debate without having it reflect how they feel about the overall issue, you know. I feel like some of you must listen to standup comedy (not that I'm as funny as a professional comedian) and just be constantly annoyed they're nitpicking and/or not addressing the larger issue. "Um, of course the DMV is slow. Every person in a community has to be served by a single location with limited resources! It's a fairly large burden!" "Airline food is the result of cost/storage abilities, plus you need to be able to prepare food for hundreds of people in a very short time! The rest of the service was very satisfactory!"

    Regardless, here's my more in-depth thoughts on this subject:

    A) I don't usually tailor many aspects of myself for other. This includes my beliefs, general demeanor, or sense of humor. My friend told me the other day that he and another friend agreed the reason they immediately liked because I was "completely honest" and "one of the genuine people he's ever met" from the very first meeting. That may also be the reason I don't have a huge number of friends, but I don't really care.

    B) If there's something I don't really want to do, and I don't see much real benefit in doing it, then I tend to just not, even if I like the people I may be doing it with. But when I do go out with friends, I'm generally up for anything and very much go-with-the-flow guy. Minor problems usually annoy me less than almost any of my friends, and I'm more open to a sudden changes in plan without stressing about it. If someone calls me, and I'm not doing anything and says "wanna go do X", if I don't like X, I'm probably not gonna do it. If they say "wanna go do Y", even if Y is a pretty major thing or will even take up a full weekend or more, I'll probably wind up doing it if there isn't a really good reason not to. Based on the fact your dad never goes to church, I kind of doubt he's that into it, even if he is religious. If you say to your family sometime "Hey, let's go out to eat tonight" or "let's see a movie" or something, I'd bet there's a good chance he'd say "yeah, okay" maybe before anyone else in your family.
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by burymecloser View Post
    That's totally dependent on one's perspective.
    Well duh... I don't deny the fact Easter services is about the last place I'd ever want to go.

  8. #38
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    LOL, only in SJ-land is "a stick in the mud" proven by its opposite!
    Uh... :confused: Do you mean that in a good way or a bad way?

    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    I'd like to enter a guilty plea. I realized I wasn't on point about half-way through my post and just figured I'd go ahead and complete my thoughts. I ranted a bit because communications with SJ's are some of the most perplexing and confusing things that happen in my daily life. I want to understand them better and I want to get along with them better, but we're often just worlds apart. It's frustrating.

    Back to the point at hand: I think INTP's appear to be sticks-in-the-mud to many people, because we are so iconoclastic and non-conformist. That, coupled with people not always getting our humor, we can definitely come off as killjoys.

    And this might sound kind of strange, but I don't see myself as "set in my ways" as much as I am just determined to "not be set in other people's ways". I often find myself trying to slip out of any kind of mold that someone might be casting me in.

    I remember an instance where an ExFJ was planning this big event and she was telling me what my "role" was going to be in the whole thing. I was like, "role? what if I don't even show up? then what?" She says, "You have to go! It's important. You WILL be there and this will be your role." The more that continued, I just finally said, "I'm just going to tell you flat out that I'm not coming. So you'll have to find someone else to fill the role."

    She was mad and actually made a remark similar to calling me a "stick-in-the-mud". So, yeah, I think other's see us that way a lot.
    Hey, thanks INTPness! That makes a lot of sense. (Sorry I kind of snapped earlier. It was my Te wanting everyone to be on task...) Interesting how much one's outlook changes things in that sort of situation. Never thought that "not being set in other people's ways" would be the motivation there. Thanks for the insight!
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Uh... :confused: Do you mean that in a good way or a bad way?
    I just found it amusing.

    Anyway, "sticks in the mud" isn't what you are looking for in these cases (esp. the sense of humor one, that really is the opposite where you are likely the stick) - more along the lines "hard-headed", which INTPs can most certainly be.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    Why are there no ESFPs mudwrestling in this thread?

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