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[INTP] INTP and GOD

Rasofy

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Because I am God and I have the power to do anything I want!
And I'm Nikola Tesla. I'm above God.
nikola4.jpg
 

RaptorWizard

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And I'm Nikola Tesla. I'm above God.
nikola4.jpg

No because he dies and God is immortal. I may have said that once but ya it was just crazy talk. Don't take my posts too seriously. Just laugh at it!
 

Rasofy

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No because he dies and God is immortal. I may have said that once but ya it was just crazy talk. Don't take my posts too seriously. Just laugh at it!
I'm an atheist. Just fucking around. :)
 

RaptorWizard

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Here is God and his preferred method of transport:

1274127075_93665444_2-The-Book-Of-Enoch-The-Audio-Book-2010-Instant-Download-San-Antonio-12741270753-300x224.jpg
 

INTP

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the thing with the god is that its many things, one aspect of it is simply things happening, i think seeing it as god is pretty stupid. some people think that god is some entity, this aspect i think is an projection of people being this god themselves, but not realizing it. god is also an creator, i think this is a mixture of tho two aspects i said. i dont think i ever really believed in god, when i was young i naturally noted religions and visited church at times(in some occasions like when someone got married), but i didnt really get this god thing, and when i did(i think somewhere around when i was 10 or something), i didnt believe in it and it just sounded silly that some people believed in that sort of stuff. luckily my mom has never been very religious person(believes in god and angels, but doesent like how religions view them) and we quit the church when i was 11(never really went there anyways).
 

nicothyun

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I don't know, but then if I have to say about my relationship with God. I think it would be this:
"I don't believe in God, but I miss him." I am haunted by this certainty: all my life would be spent seeking for a God who does not knows and loves me.

I grew up in a non-religious household. My parents believed in Taoism and most of my relatives subscribed to Buddhism with the occasional one or two Roman Catholics and Muslims. I was never expected to choose a religion, or to believe in a God. I think it is the way Taoism works, you kind of choose and craft your own Way - your spiritual beliefs and values - and this organic and malleable system has sort of framed my own beliefs on God. I don't know with certainty. I kind of believe there is a cosmic force at work; something greater and grander than we could comprehend, it may be God or it may not be. It has the sensibilities of a Spinoza's God. And I think the lack of God and a religious structure for moral conduct and ethics during my childhood and teenage hood kind of influenced me. I am horribly uncertain about my own beliefs and values towards God - the only thing I am sort of certain or would like it to be true: God is a product of human societies and minds - a long history of shaped human perceptions, motives and actions.

When I see this world, laid and constructed so beautifully, I want to believe in a God created world. But I don't know. I like to believe God is a watchmaker, impartial and unconcerned with the trivial affairs of Man. For Man was not a carefully constructed being it created. I think I am afflicted with this curse or this wanting or desire to pursue God; to seek for my spiritual Truth or my Way. I become incredibly envious and sad when I see my religious friends talking about their religion. Because they share or have this private spiritual world that I can never belong to and it feels incredibly lonely and sad. Once, I fasted with my Muslim friend during the fasting month (actually I just felt really bad eating in front of her since she looked so hungry; so I ended up not eating for the whole day) and during the moment when they broke fast, where we were seated in a Muslim eating place, it was incredibly beautiful to hear the Islamic prayers and see them joined during that brief moment that commenced the end of the fasting session. And I feel like I can never truly belong to any part of it.

I read the Bible, some of the Buddhist scriptures, attempts to read the Quran - all in the vain hopes of finding a God that I could love and believe in. But then with churches and organized religions, I don't know, at the end of the day, they are created with human intentions and motives and values and so they are flawed and imperfect interpretations of the Christian God. The different groups have different motives for valuing a belief over another. For example, the Bible states that homosexuality is a sin, but then stealing and lust are also sins and he has never explicitly stated a hierarchy in the sins. So why is there such a huge hooha over homosexuality being a greater sin than the mentioned? I don't know, I think that maybe it is because humans manipulate and bend them for their own purposes. And at the end of the day, even if there was really a God (loving or impartial), our human minds and interpretations blinds us from the real truth. (?) I don't know. Probably explains why I can't seem to subscribe to the Christian God or as a matter of fact, to any other Gods.

But then I am still searching and wandering.

Edit: I don't know, maybe it's my need for answers or a resolution to this big wibbly complex "thing". I was thinking it is remarkable and interesting how our human perceptions have shaped and cause the evolution of gods or God. A while ago, I was reading about the brief (yeah, brief) outline and history of Indian religion. And it was interesting to see how Early Vedic religions (origins of Hinduism) evolve to not only become the modern concept of Hinduism, but then grew to form other major religions such as Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism. And how the other religions were reactions/responses to the early Vedic beliefs; how the societies psyche and individual beliefs have shaped and moulded the religions in subtle but prominent ways.
 

Fluffywolf

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The idea of God scares me on a personal level, many wars and billions of victims throughout the ages can be linked directly to the choice of humans to believe in higher powers and deities of all shapes and sizes.

But the idea of humans without a sense of belonging scares me more. If you believe and you need religion as you need oxygen, water and sustanance. Then don't let me keep you from it. Because after all, time and time again we prove to be a savage and irrational race. Whilest religion can be linked to many a crime of humanity, it is not the idea of religion itself that is at fault, but the practitioners that are at fault. In fact, I'm pretty certain that without religion, humanity would most likely be worse off.


Whilst religion is a key integral part of the way of life of many a people to this day, I think eventually religion will get more of a luxury position for all believers. Standing beneath a universal moral code that can be shared by all humans, so whatever your beliefs, we can all coexist peacefully beneath the transcending umbrella of a common sense of morality. That is a world I would love to live in.


Needless to say, I myself am agnostic. I already stand beneath that umbrella of universal morality and find that there is no importance or value in any religion that adheres to a set of specifications.
 

C.J.Woolf

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But then I am still searching and wandering.

I don't believe in deities and I certainly don't believe in organized religion (it gives people too much permission to do evil), but I do believe in spirituality. I used to sneer at that too, but the examples of people like you changed my mind.

I hope you find what you're looking for, but in the meantime consider the possibility that the search is supposed to never end.
 

nicothyun

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I don't believe in deities and I certainly don't believe in organized religion (it gives people too much permission to do evil), but I do believe in spirituality. I used to sneer at that too, but the examples of people like you changed my mind.

I hope you find what you're looking for, but in the meantime consider the possibility that the search is supposed to never end.

Thank you. I hope so too...

Hahaha but, I am actually resigned (it's not a bad thing though) to the fact that I might never find what I am looking for, given that my thoughts and beliefs will constantly be evolving as I am increasingly exposed to different influences, people, environment and circumstances. But then again, I suppose it is not a bad thing, maybe my search for God or the mysterious would give meaning to my life so it is actually kind of satisfying (as cynical and absurd this might sound). Although the absence of God makes it harder to defer responsibility, "to push the blame" or even to be used as a mental support during hard situations, but if I could transcend my "reliance" for such, maybe I could grow stronger mentally. But then again, it gets kind of lonely too. Haha idk what I am saying haha.

And haha I guess INTPs like complexity and abstract systems (etc.) and maybe, the search for answers to the issue of God might be the most complex, biggest and most beautiful theory/'system'/etc. Because the search sort of leads you to question and analyse human nature, behaviour and thoughts and idk haha I guess we, INTPs like a good puzzle. :)
 

scorpiomover

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When you've grown up in a Westernised country, you are taught tons about why science is rational, but almost nothing at all about understanding G-d. Most people know more about things that we know don't even exist, like a mystical force called "gravity", whose attributed effects we now know are due to the shape of the universe, than they know about what they call G-d, and much of that, they get from TV.

Of course anyone growing up in such countries struggle with the concept. Anyone would struggle with advanced calculus if they were denied being taught basic arithmetic, and even someone like that, can learn advanced calculus in under a year. Understanding theology takes a lot more time and effort for Westerners.
 

yasin

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I am an intp and i am extremely faithful to god.i am thinking i will soon type down my own explanation and reason for a god to exist and post it here.
 

Luke O

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I am an intp and i am extremely faithful to god.i am thinking i will soon type down my own explanation and reason for a god to exist and post it here.

I would be interested in reading that. I'm completely the opposite in terms of opinion though.
 

yasin

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I am still typing it down. It's actually very big. Hope i will be able to post it within 2 days. Sorry for being a bit late.:)
 

great_bay

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I am surprised how people can leave their belief in God with a probability. This would never happened be Gods that people used to believe in. You are falling under the trickery of Extroverted feeling to whereas you want to believe to fit in.
 

yasin

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Hi!i did nit exactly understand what you meant. Woul you please explain it a bit more clearly?
 

Obsidius

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I been making a lot of thread lately, sorry if I annoy you but I like hearing feedbacks.

How well do INTP deal with god? My parents both believe in god so I also believed in god growing up but as I get older it's starting to fade away. My parents are worried about me and religion is stressing me out.

I have the same problem with religious parents, however, this hasn't got too much to do with MBTI. That being said, there are obviously statistical studies showing us an affinity between certain types and religion, or the inverse of such an affinity. I believe INTP's are statistically fairly atheistic in nature, but not sure if that's what you were asking.

Fact is, God requires faith, a lot of it, which is why I don't believe in one myself, because faith isn't the way of someone who employs a sheer form of rationalism. This might have to do with the INTP's seemingly aversive attitude towards this kind of belief, it isn't rational, but emotional.
 

yasin

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-------does a god really exist?------

We know that the living world works in a perfect and extremely complex system. extremely complex reactions,both physical and chemical,are always occurring in just the perfect doses in just the right place and time so that the whole universe remains balanced.

Now let's think about the first being ever created/born/produced. science says that the living beings are formed by various lifeless chemical elements like carbon,hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, iron, iodine, potassium, phosphorus etc(i CERTAINLY agree).but every organic substance,produced by the reactions of these non-living elements,are produced by extremely complex,perfectly calculated and lengthy chemical processes. even if it is just carbohydrates.

Below i am mentioning just a small portion of the process of producing carbohydrates in short,you can skip this para if you already know how complex the process of producing carbohydrates is. besides,you don't need to understand or remember the reactions mentioned below,they are only mentioned here so that it is clear for you to realize just how complex the reactions can be just for producing carbohydrates,this is the small portion:

1. Grab: A five-carbon carbon catcher catches one molecule of carbon dioxide and forms a six-carbon molecule.
2. Split: the enzyme RuBisCO (with the energy of ATP and NADPH molecules) breaks the six-carbon molecule into two equal parts.
3. Leave: A trio of three carbons leave and become sugar. The other trio moves on to the next step.
4. Switch: Using ATP and NADPH, the three carbon molecule is changed into a five carbon molecule.
5. The cycle starts over again.(source:wikipedia.org,link:Calvin cycle - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Now,we know, cells cannot be produced without the production of protein. and formation of proteins is much much much more complex than carbohydrates. so you can imagine very well what a huge amount of perfectly calculated series of extremely complex chemical reactions it would require to form just a single of the most simple primitive cells.

So it would require a huge number of perfect coincidences so that the perfect conditions are created so that every extremely complex chemical reaction could occur just in the perfect way,in the perfect amount, in the perfect order,in order to form just a single cell.

Now let's agree that all these complex reactions occurred just in the perfect ways,in the perfect times,due to huge huge huge number of coincidences,that created the perfect conditions for the complex reactions,and without anyone's guidance,and thus formed the first cell ever. and it was automatically produced from the lifeless elements like oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, iron, phosphorus,potassium etc.

now imagine if i say i will put a huge container in space where there is no living being,the container almost as huge as the earth,i will fill it with lifeless elements like oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen,iodine, iron, phosphorus, potassium, sodium etc and there will be not even a single living or dead cell there. now if i say after 1 trillion years,you will find the container crawling with insects,what would everyone and even the scientists say?i asked this to a few people and all of them said something like,"they will say,how can it be?are you mad?"

So how can the insects living around us be produced from non-living things? the living beings can only be formed in this way,only if extremely extremely extremely huge number of coincidences take place,creating perfect conditions for each reaction,which is impossible,and so the formation of living beings from lifeless things is also impossible. and even if these extremely huge number of coincidences occur,it will clearly seem that someone is really guiding it,since coincidences occur once,twice or thrice,not usually a thousand times.

even though,let's just agree that the living beings were formed just because of big number of coincidences and no one had guided their formation.


Then in this way due to coincidences,the first cell was formed. And then from this cell new cells started to be produced. And then the newer ones also started reproducing. And thus their number increased.

Now we know that the plants and and animals are interdependent, one cannot live without the other. The plants produce food,carbohydrates and oxygen by using mainly sunlight,water and carbon-dioxide. And the animals can never survive without the carbohydrate and oxygen produced by plants. But in exchange to this,the animals produce carbon-dioxide and without this carbon-dioxide the plants can also never survive. And again the animals/insects carry the pollens of the flowers of many plants,without which the plants cannot reproduce. And in exchange the animals/insects get nectar and also fruits from the trees that will be produced in the future from these very pollens. Thus they maintain a perfect and complex balance and cooperation which ultimately saves all the organisms,and without which they would have become extinct long ago.

So now,after the cells were formed due to coincidences,they started to evolve on earth. But,coincidentally, as the cells evolved they divided into two main divisions,the plants and the animals(along with insects). Coincidentally, they evolved from the same group of cells in just such a way,that among the two parts,each part balanced the other so that both of them could survive and none would get extinct.


It was as if the cells were cooperating with each other,as if they could talk with each other or communicate and express thoughts and as if one part of them said to the other "we will evolve into the plants who will produce food, carbohydrate and oxygen for you and you will evolve into the animals who will produce carbon-dioxide for us and carry our pollens,so that both of us can survive."

But in reality the cells cannot actually talk with each other,and so,such a perfect cooperation,just because of coincidence does not actually make sense,and so it seems very clearly that someone has guided them for some reason so that they could form a perfect balance,and so that all of them could survive.

But even though let's just agree that the cells coincidentally evolved into perfectly balanced parts,plants and animals,although they cannot talk to each other,and no one had guided them.


But then arrived the human kind, who would be completely unique from every other kind on earth. Who would change and break the rules of nature and rule over every other creature even if they are 500 times stronger then them or even if they fly in the air or swim in the water. They had no notable amount of physical strength or special physical abilities like flying,breathing in water,horns,big teeth,extreme flexibility,extreme speed etc. The only difference they had were a few intellectual differences. They had an extreme level of intelligence and they could speak as efficiently as no other kind could, could express almost every one of their thoughts to the others of their kind, coming up with new ideas and solutions for every problem. Only this kind was intelligent enough so that they could soon be able to build palaces that were million times bigger than them in size,fly in the sky,dive under the sea,unlike any other kind.

Only this kind had the perfect hands that could use a pen to write and draw. No other kind, not even trained monkeys could write or draw so minutely as they could. And without this feature, it was impossible to carry ideas between places that were oceans apart.

Again, they were the only kind that felt ease in walking and standing completely straight, which also gave them the ability to ride on other animals and also on vehicles invented from the ideas of their own minds/brains.

But the humans had another unique uniqueness. We know that the animals,plants,insects and all living beings are interdependent,one cannot survive without the other. If you kill all the plants,all the animals will die due to scarcity of oxygen. Again,if you kill all the deer and bulls,the tigers and the lions would soon be dead due to scarcity of food. And then,due to shortage of carbon-dioxide produced by them,the plants would also die and consequently all the living beings would get extinct. And even if you kill all the tigers and lions,there would arise problems. Very soon the number of deer and bulls would increase to a great extent and it would still not stop increasing. But very soon all the grass would be finished. Because the deer and bulls whose numbers cannot be controlled now, will eat all the grass they can reach. But very soon when the grass ends they will also have to die,because no more food is left for them. And then a huge deficit of carbon-dioxide will take place,since the huge number of carbon-dioxide producers are now gone. And again the plants will also die. And we know what will happen after it. Now you might say that there is no deficit of carbon-dioxide because we humans are producing a lot of it. But actually to meet the demand of the plants,you will have to produce much more carbon-dioxide than before,since a huge population of carbon-dioxide producers is now gone. But actually when you start burning more amounts of fuel for producing carbon-dioxide,there arise two problems. Firstly, our fuel reserve will be finished very fast. But secondly, the main problem is,along with carbon-oxide,we will also produce compounds like nitrous oxide,that cause acid rain. And again,you can say that we can start killing deer and bulls to maintain balance,but actually it is almost impossible. Because the deer cannot be killed in huge numbers without cars,since the deer are very fast, but cars cannot travel through jungles easily. And even if they have entered the jungles,the fuels will soon be finished. And if you wish to kill bulls,you will have to go to very harsh and remote places,with many men and cars,where the fuel of your cars will soon be finished running behind the bulls. So,the main thing is that this idea is a bit absurd. And so we can understand that all living beings, plants, animals, insects, birds, all of them are interdependent, none can survive without the other.

But, the humans were extremely exceptional even in this case. Although they ruled over the other living beings,they were also dependent on them. But unlike every other being,the humans were the only being,on whom no other being depended. We can imagine very well what would happen if all the plants or the deer and the bulls or the tigers or any other species was completely killed. All the other beings along with us would either be destroyed or will face the risk of destruction. But can you imagine what would happen if all the humans are killed? No imbalance would be created in nature,rather it would be saved from imbalance and the other living beings would live even more peacefully. The earth would remain the same as it was even centuries later. No imbalance would be found anywhere. Only the pet animals will face a bit of problem at first(i am joking).

Now the question is,why is there only one kind or species like the human kind? Why did the other kinds like us not survive? Or why were new kinds like us not formed,who would compete with us for ruling the world or for survival? Why is it that on the planet earth,there is only one kind that can think as good as the humans can,and can speak and express their thoughts? Who can write and draw with their hands?Who ride on other animals and vehicles unlike any other? And who depend on all the other beings but no other living being depends on them for survival and would not face extinction due to their extinction(extinction of humans)?


If coincidence was so easy to occur thousands and thousands and thousands of times, that living cells can be formed from lifeless things automatically and coincidentally, and perfect balance could be created among so many species coincidentally,so that all of them could survive, why did coincidentally other beings not be formed or could not survive who would be as unique as the humans? Who would compete with them for ruling the world or for survival? Who would be dependent on all other beings but the others would not be dependent on them? Who would change the rules and break the balance of nature?

This is just an indication and proof that coincidence is not so easy to occur thousands and thousands and thousands of times. Therefore it is clear to me that there was someone who guided every one of these coincidences, in order to create the humans and make them survive,but "in-coincidentally" kept a clear uniqueness in the humans so that it is a clear sign for those who think. So these signs are very clear to me. And so I believe there is someone with complete control and knowledge of everything, who has caused the creation or evolution of the living beings and specially the humans and produced a system so that all of them and specially the humans could survive. That someone must be infinitely powerful, otherwise he could not have done things so precisely. And there must not be anyone or anything similar to him,because I cannot logically imagine a human like me having so much control,power or knowledge.


And this someone,who is behind everything, is GOD.Please read it whole and read with concentration. And pls let me know if you like it or if you have any problem with the explanation.hope you like it.
 

indra

is
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Your arguments are incredibly ignorant, from first to last.
 
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