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Thread: INTP and GOD

  1. #51
    Fight For Freedom FFF's Avatar
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    My high openness has allowed me to take a rather unorthodox faith in Christ. Perhaps I will post stuff about it soon. I should probably try to organize stuff, so it doesn't come out as a mess, though.

  2. #52
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    What do people make of scripture? Of Bronze Age mythology? Is the Bible to be trusted at all, as a definitive resource for the governance of modern behavior?

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFF View Post
    My high openness has allowed me to take a rather unorthodox faith in Christ. Perhaps I will post stuff about it soon. I should probably try to organize stuff, so it doesn't come out as a mess, though.
    I think that the epitome of open-mindedness is agnosticism. It is physically impossible for us to know what exists beyond the realm of reality so to firmly believe in a particular unjustifiable possibility seems a bit closed minded. Though honestly I think atheism has more credibility than religion.

  4. #54
    Junior Member rogue1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by refreshe123d View Post
    just wondering if INTP can be very faithful to god or not since we need evidence and facts to prove something is real.
    Even Einstein said that just because something could not be confirmed with science doesn't mean that it is not a fact....and that sometimes there are "unexplained factors" therefore it should not be dismissed just because it cant be confirmed. He also talked about science being limited in their sight because of it. He thought outside of the box.

  5. #55
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue1 View Post
    Even Einstein said that just because something could not be confirmed with science doesn't mean that it is not a fact....and that sometimes there are "unexplained factors" therefore it should not be dismissed just because it cant be confirmed. He also talked about science being limited in their sight because of it. He thought outside of the box.
    But then again, Einstein still chose to not believe in a personal God.
    Apparently that seemed less likely to him than Spinoza's god.

    At best, he was a mechanistic deist.
    He placed limits of what he thought was probable.

    And I don't know if he would still try to label faith as a 'fact'.
    Facts and truth are not necessarily synonymous terms.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    But then again, Einstein still chose to not believe in a personal God.
    Apparently that seemed less likely to him than Spinoza's god.

    At best, he was a mechanistic deist.
    He placed limits of what he thought was probable.

    And I don't know if he would still try to label faith as a 'fact'.
    Facts and truth are not necessarily synonymous terms.
    Wasn't he the one who said "Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."

    Though I still withstand my agnosticism. I'm just pedantic. I once saw a religious documentary with an atheist saying Einstein was atheist and I was like Grr! Don't use arguments that aren't true!

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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodgrief View Post
    Wasn't he the one who said "Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."
    That's one of the soundbites people toss around, yes.
    (He also thinks Imagination is more important than Intelligence.)

    I once saw a religious documentary with an atheist saying Einstein was atheist and I was like Grr! Don't use arguments that aren't true!
    Exactly.

    I get tired of it, it's like listening to evangelicals insist the Founding Fathers held the same religious beliefs they do nowadays.

    Einstein is just a deist, at best.
    And so was Jefferson, at best.

    There's faith there in some grand design.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #58
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    "Could" is a far cry from "is."
    "Could" encompasses everything... thus signifying nothing.
    Which is what I'm trying to say, it reflects the uncertainty of science. Science itself is a "could". It signifies nothing. Our "verifiable" knowledge is really but a speck yet why do we trust it so willfully? More epistemology....what is a "fact"?

    Quote Originally Posted by goodgrief View Post
    It is physically impossible for us to know what exists beyond the realm of reality so to firmly believe in a particular unjustifiable possibility seems a bit closed minded. .
    Is reality itself justifiable? I would say adhering that idea would be more close minded. To deny possibilities out of simple experimental consistency is one I perceive as short-sighted. We could bend these natural laws we so hold onto; this model we attached ourselves into. Time Travel, Ghosts, Alien visits. I'm not saying go crazy. I'm saying consider the "impossible". Science is not a rulebook; it's a more flexible material of study.
    A search for truth is a search for a greedy perspective.

    Nah, that's not truth. That's just your bullshit ideas of truth. Truth is always inclusive. If it's not inclusive, then toughen it up and try harder.

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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    Which is what I'm trying to say, it reflects the uncertainty of science. Science itself is a "could". It signifies nothing. Our "verifiable" knowledge is really but a speck yet why do we trust it so willfully? More epistemology....what is a "fact"?
    That's why I'm agnostic.

    Not to avoid commitment to truth claims, but because the validity of truth claims is negotiable to begin with... although we can discuss "seeming probabilities" well enough.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #60
    Senior Member think2much's Avatar
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    whoa, six pages over night.... will read once I get back home.

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