[ENTP] Why do ENTPs perceive any form of disagreement as a challenge to an epic duel?

[Thessaly]

Debating does not equal an argument to an ENTP. Perhaps you are perceiving it that way.

However, if he is getting personal, then he is likely just an immature person instead of only exhibiting ENTP characteristics. ENTPs like to argue, yes, but the mature ones know their limits and how to stay within them. Its his issue, not the issue of ENTPs at large.

I used to personally critique someone during the course of discussion when my Ne caused me to see some flaw in a person's thoughts or personality that did or would affect their lives. Usually I was trying to help that person. Eventually I realized, and most other ENTPs do at some point too, that it doesn't work and the argument is not worth it. He seems to have not developed Fe yet. How old is he?

When I am excited about something I am thinking, I can have a tendency to start talking faster, raising my voice, and trying to get everything out that is running through my mind at once even if it means interrupting others, and it often comes off to people as me being upset. Perhaps that is happening too.

26.

 

[digesthisickness]

He perceives me to be condescending merely by not assuming he knows everything in the entire world. He genuinely feels talked down to the moment I explain anything, including my feelings.

okay, i'm going to have to ask for a true example of a conversation. or, at least the beginning of one - up to where shit starts to go haywire. and, by true, i mean literally, no candy-coating or exaggeration of either side.

because either you've got a very closed-minded ass on your hands who (and this is weird for me at least) isn't open to another's point of view, OR you're saying some things in such a way that he really believes you're being condescending.

or, hell, maybe you've typed him wrong. there are lots of variables here. however, an example would be much easier to analyze than just your perception of your side.

P. S. eurekagasm should definitely be a word.

 

[Shimmy]

He perceives me to be condescending merely by not assuming he knows everything in the entire world. He genuinely feels talked down to the moment I explain anything, including my feelings.

2 bad moves on your part.
First of all, don't assume he doesn't know everything. He fully realises that he doesn't, but pointing it out in words, intonation or bodylanguage (i.e. communication) is condescending. Enlighten him with the knowledge you've got, rather than trying to debunk his knowledge.

Second.. Explaining feelings?.. Really?.. How do you think to achieve anything that way in dealing with an ENTP?

Personally I find it very difficult to talk to INFP's, my mom's one, and though I love her, I can hardly have a conversation that we would both find meaningful or constructive.

 

[Thessaly]

okay, i'm going to have to ask for a true example of a conversation. or, at least the beginning of one - up to where shit starts to go haywire. and, by true, i mean literally, no candy-coating or exaggeration of either side.

because either you've got a very closed-minded ass on your hands who (and this is weird for me at least) isn't open to another's point of view, OR you're saying some things in such a way that he really believes you're being condescending.

or, hell, maybe you've typed him wrong. there are lots of variables here. however, an example would be much easier to analyze than just your perception of your side.

P. S. eurekagasm should definitely be a word.

He's taken a ton of tests and he is unequivocally an ENTP. I'll see if I can find a chat of ours for you to examine later. I think both of your above conclusions are probably true. Untempered arrogance and miscommunication due to our personality differences.

 

[Thessaly]

2 bad moves on your part.
First of all, don't assume he doesn't know everything. He fully realises that he doesn't, but pointing it out in words, intonation or bodylanguage (i.e. communication) is condescending. Enlighten him with the knowledge you've got, rather than trying to debunk his knowledge.

Second.. Explaining feelings?.. Really?.. How do you think to achieve anything that way in dealing with an ENTP?

Personally I find it very difficult to talk to INFP's, my mom's one, and though I love her, I can hardly have a conversation that we would both find meaningful or constructive.

How can I enlighten him in a manner that won't be construed as debunking his knowledge? I suppose you're right that I may be assuming he doesn't know things. Why is it so hard for me to understand this guy? It's like I have to do a mental 180 to get into his brain shoes. I really want to get along with him though even if it means bending over backwards.

 

[Gewitter27]

NTP's know it is like this:

A: We are right, and you aren't listening. We must reinforce our position.

or

B: We don't know who is right. Therefore, we must make a very reinforced and convincing argument to assure that each position is well-entrenched before a conclusion is come to.

Since ENTP's are more vocal than INTP's, they will talk far more, sometimes to the point that you feel you can't get a word in edgewise. They're just trying to make sure their position is well-protected.

 

[Shimmy]

How can I enlighten him in a manner that won't be construed as debunking his knowledge? I suppose you're right that I may be assuming he doesn't know things. Why is it so hard for me to understand this guy? It's like I have to do a mental 180 to get into his brain shoes. I really want to get along with him though even if it means bending over backwards.

It's all how you look at it. If you feel of it as changing his mind you will only build resistance, if you feel of it as coming to a solution you will automatically convey your message in that way, and ENTP's love solutions. You posted this earlier:

He perceives me to be condescending merely by not assuming he knows everything in the entire world.

It tells me more about your mindset then it does about his. After all, these are your words expressing your view. Apart from that, I find INFP's difficult to talk to because they hold so strong to their value systems and good intentions. As good as they may be, they tend to annoy the ENTP who thinks of them as rigid guidelines that exclude different possibilities.

Here are some very simple linguistic skills everybody can learn. Say "Yes, and..." rather then "but". Say "that's a good point" or "I understand" before giving another alternative or your own viewpoint. When face to face, nod politely as he speaks. There's a billion of these little things that can help you make most conversations go smooth. You could find a book on communication techniques, it's quite interesting.

 

[digesthisickness]

He's taken a ton of tests and he is unequivocally an ENTP. I'll see if I can find a chat of ours for you to examine later. I think both of your above conclusions are probably true. Untempered arrogance and miscommunication due to our personality differences.

great! can't wait to read it.

 

[jenocyde]

I don't get it. We will be casually conversing and then all of a sudden the smallest thing will set him off and I have no idea what is going on. I inadvertently piss him off a million times within 10 minutes of talking.

Are you sure you are pissing him off with your arguments - and not the fact that you keep accusing him of being pissed off? I hate when people tell me my mental state. Nothing will get a rise out of me quicker... that, and mopey people. People who jump on the "woe is me" bandwagon get really sharp responses from me. But that still doesn't mean I'm pissed off.

It's just that their Ne is catching on to things and they're bursting it out like mad, because with Ne, you have to spurt things out, before you've lost it again.

Very well said.

because either you've got a very closed-minded ass on your hands who (and this is weird for me at least) isn't open to another's point of view, OR you're saying some things in such a way that he really believes you're being condescending..

Yeah, good point. Or you could just be ultra-sensitive and/or paranoid.

I'm not suggesting that we can't be arrogant pricks, but the anger thing is weird. I just can't vibe with that. Has this person told you flat out that he is pissed at you?

Why does this guy mean so much to you? If you don't feel comfortable in a conversation with him, what are you clinging to and why?

 

[Moiety]

I wish I knew an ENTP irl to know what all the fuss is about.

 

[teslashock]

Why do ENTPs perceive any form of disagreement as a challenge to an epic duel?

Simply put, because we enjoy dueling, so we'll hop on board any opportunity we see for a duel.

Ne/Ti discerns the relative merit of ideas by hashing through them and evaluating all the different possible opposing ideas. The easiest and most enjoyable way for an extrovert to discover opposing ideas is through interaction with those who hold opposing viewpoint(s).

Also, tertiary Fe, especially when it's weak and immature, causes an ENTP to desire for others to view him/her as smart (self-esteem as a function of external validation, ftw). This, coupled with Ne/Ti, says: "What better way to be perceived as smart than to convince and argue with others that my idea is right and there's wrong?"

 

[Craft]

The man should post here and share his version of what's going on.

 

[simulatedworld]

Ti considers incorrectness just cause for verbal correction.

Ne is always bored and looking for some way to poke something for a response.

That's about it.

 

[sculpting]

I wish I knew an ENTP irl to know what all the fuss is about.

They are awesome. I keep trying to get my best friend ENTP to marry me. She did point out that she is already married and then I said, well, I am okay with that if you are, but then she said, I dont like girls.

"But I thought we were best friends? I brought you roses? Dont you love me? "

The she was like "Did you finish those slides for the design review yet?" and I was like "I loooooove you, hold me,,,, I am so aloooonnnnnnneee." Then she said "Quit looking at me like that. Your Fi scares me."

"What when I look at you like this? (Insert googly Fi look)"

"Stay away from me or I will get the INTPs to kick you out."

"Ah the Ti users all band together"

"Well if the Te users werent so slow and actually paid attention to the details"

"You know I dunno, I mean Fi isnt quite like Te, so you gotta quite lumping us altogether"

"You all get in my way and mess things up"

"That's not true we actually get shit done, because your ass would be stuck in details all day Ti-ing the day away"

"Duct tape-human Duct tape. You keep breaking the systems and taking shortcuts instead of fixing them.

"Look I dont have time to wait for you to fix your fucking systems. I need product today. Like right fucking now. If your SOP was written and your system built great. But until then my FiTe saves your ass. Dude-even your INTP skips all the steps with me"

"Because he can short cut the other entp and skirt all the other Te users. You are the crazy one who lets him do crazy things. until the systems are fixed, we will see the same mistakes again which will include blah, blah, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, blah, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, blah, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, blah, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, blah, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, blah, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, blah, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, blah, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, blah, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah"

"Oh right yeah,that makes sense, I see. (Insert serious pondering look pretending to have some vague idea of what that Ti tangent above was actually about. Hmmm... I think I have squirrels in my brain."

"dont you have your own office?"

"No, I gave it up cause my Fi keep freaking me out cause people were walking by all the time."

"Your insane."

"Wanna go to lunch?"

"Sure"

yeah that's kinda how we interact everyday.

 

[goodgrief]

Coming from an INTJ who somewhat shares this trait of ENTPs...

Because it's so damn fun!

 

[Amphion]

It's not true that ENTPs regard any disagreement as an epic duel, but we do sometimes bristle when confronted with careless arguments that offend our principles or have ramifications that are not necessarily perceived by the other party. Like any other NT, I don't really care if you're wrong as long as it doesn't effect me.

 

[thisGuy]

maybe you are inadvertently saying something that exposes and pokes at his insecurity (at least to him)

if he is really proud of being smart and you say something that makes him realize that his smartness might come into question, he might behave the way you described. (why? cuz of the one-upping thing. cuz he needs someone to bitch slap him and lock him in a room where he can have time to go reflect...)

 

[Amphion]

I should also point out that it's extremely likely that what other types consider an "epic dual" an ENTP might think of as a minor scuffle.

Also, the part about ENTPs becoming offended if you don't presume they know everything in the universe sounds like a bit of an exaggeration.

Any NT has a huge list of "ought to knows" especially if it's work related. It can be bewildering when someone tells an ENTP something they believe is imperative to their area of expertise.

That can occasionally elicit a response of, "Yes, thank you professor. Now sit down before you hurt yourself."

Of course, I am 38 years old. How I behave today as an ENTP may not reflect how I behaved at 21 years old, for example.

ENTPs are like fine wines! We mellow with age.

 

[JivinJeffJones]

Agree that we could get a better idea with more detailed examples.

I started a post outlining possibilities of what could be happening, but by the time I got to #7 I realized I would never get to the end of them. One thing I will salvage is that I think the title is unfortunate. You want to know why this ENTP perceives any form of etc etc. Not all ENTPs. Unless it's a recurring pattern with other ENTPs. Is it a recurring pattern with other ENTPs?


I have met people like this before, though I doubt any of them were ENTPs. I've mostly chalked it up to insecurity. They set themselves up as the purveyor of wisdom, with you as their grasshopper. Any disagreement with them is seen as a slight against their imagined authority. It's easy to get along with them once you understand their special needs, but I wouldn't want to be friends with one.

I think INFPs are prone to being adopted as the young padawans of such people because, firstly, they are often unpopular and unhappy and we tend to empathize with and reach out to those kinds of people in a social setting. And secondly we listen flatteringly when we don't know people all that well. I know I do this when I'm trying to get a read on who someone is, where they might be coming from and what they actually know. If this continues for a while then the person begins to feel your roles within the relationship have been defined. They are the teacher, you are the student. You are giving them value. Then when you start speaking your mind in disagreement (because your Ne feels it now has enough to go on, or your Fi is tripped) they seem to feel that you're making a power play and must be put back in your place so they can return to receiving a sense of value from you.

Well...that's my read on a pattern I've noticed a few times in my life. None of the occasions were especially heated though. I don't know if your ENTP is one of the kind of people I'm talking about. Just thought I'd throw it out there.

 

[simulatedworld]

I keep trying to get my best friend ENTP to marry me. She did point out that she is already married and then I said, well, I am okay with that if you are, but then she said, I dont like girls.