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  1. #21
    I drink your milkshake. Thessaly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungGun2112 View Post
    Debating does not equal an argument to an ENTP. Perhaps you are perceiving it that way.

    However, if he is getting personal, then he is likely just an immature person instead of only exhibiting ENTP characteristics. ENTPs like to argue, yes, but the mature ones know their limits and how to stay within them. Its his issue, not the issue of ENTPs at large.

    I used to personally critique someone during the course of discussion when my Ne caused me to see some flaw in a person's thoughts or personality that did or would affect their lives. Usually I was trying to help that person. Eventually I realized, and most other ENTPs do at some point too, that it doesn't work and the argument is not worth it. He seems to have not developed Fe yet. How old is he?

    When I am excited about something I am thinking, I can have a tendency to start talking faster, raising my voice, and trying to get everything out that is running through my mind at once even if it means interrupting others, and it often comes off to people as me being upset. Perhaps that is happening too.
    26.
    With dreamers, pure and simple, the imagination remains a vaguely sketched inner affair. It is not embodied in any aesthetic or practical invention. Reverie is the equivalent of weak desires. Dreamers are the aboulics of the creative imagination.

  2. #22
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thessaly View Post
    He perceives me to be condescending merely by not assuming he knows everything in the entire world. He genuinely feels talked down to the moment I explain anything, including my feelings.
    okay, i'm going to have to ask for a true example of a conversation. or, at least the beginning of one - up to where shit starts to go haywire. and, by true, i mean literally, no candy-coating or exaggeration of either side.

    because either you've got a very closed-minded ass on your hands who (and this is weird for me at least) isn't open to another's point of view, OR you're saying some things in such a way that he really believes you're being condescending.

    or, hell, maybe you've typed him wrong. there are lots of variables here. however, an example would be much easier to analyze than just your perception of your side.

    P. S. eurekagasm should definitely be a word.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member Shimmy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thessaly View Post
    He perceives me to be condescending merely by not assuming he knows everything in the entire world. He genuinely feels talked down to the moment I explain anything, including my feelings.
    2 bad moves on your part.
    First of all, don't assume he doesn't know everything. He fully realises that he doesn't, but pointing it out in words, intonation or bodylanguage (i.e. communication) is condescending. Enlighten him with the knowledge you've got, rather than trying to debunk his knowledge.

    Second.. Explaining feelings?.. Really?.. How do you think to achieve anything that way in dealing with an ENTP?

    Personally I find it very difficult to talk to INFP's, my mom's one, and though I love her, I can hardly have a conversation that we would both find meaningful or constructive.
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  4. #24
    I drink your milkshake. Thessaly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    okay, i'm going to have to ask for a true example of a conversation. or, at least the beginning of one - up to where shit starts to go haywire. and, by true, i mean literally, no candy-coating or exaggeration of either side.

    because either you've got a very closed-minded ass on your hands who (and this is weird for me at least) isn't open to another's point of view, OR you're saying some things in such a way that he really believes you're being condescending.

    or, hell, maybe you've typed him wrong. there are lots of variables here. however, an example would be much easier to analyze than just your perception of your side.

    P. S. eurekagasm should definitely be a word.
    He's taken a ton of tests and he is unequivocally an ENTP. I'll see if I can find a chat of ours for you to examine later. I think both of your above conclusions are probably true. Untempered arrogance and miscommunication due to our personality differences.
    With dreamers, pure and simple, the imagination remains a vaguely sketched inner affair. It is not embodied in any aesthetic or practical invention. Reverie is the equivalent of weak desires. Dreamers are the aboulics of the creative imagination.

  5. #25
    I drink your milkshake. Thessaly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shimmy View Post
    2 bad moves on your part.
    First of all, don't assume he doesn't know everything. He fully realises that he doesn't, but pointing it out in words, intonation or bodylanguage (i.e. communication) is condescending. Enlighten him with the knowledge you've got, rather than trying to debunk his knowledge.

    Second.. Explaining feelings?.. Really?.. How do you think to achieve anything that way in dealing with an ENTP?

    Personally I find it very difficult to talk to INFP's, my mom's one, and though I love her, I can hardly have a conversation that we would both find meaningful or constructive.
    How can I enlighten him in a manner that won't be construed as debunking his knowledge? I suppose you're right that I may be assuming he doesn't know things. Why is it so hard for me to understand this guy? It's like I have to do a mental 180 to get into his brain shoes. I really want to get along with him though even if it means bending over backwards.
    With dreamers, pure and simple, the imagination remains a vaguely sketched inner affair. It is not embodied in any aesthetic or practical invention. Reverie is the equivalent of weak desires. Dreamers are the aboulics of the creative imagination.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Gewitter27's Avatar
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    NTP's know it is like this:

    A: We are right, and you aren't listening. We must reinforce our position.

    or

    B: We don't know who is right. Therefore, we must make a very reinforced and convincing argument to assure that each position is well-entrenched before a conclusion is come to.

    Since ENTP's are more vocal than INTP's, they will talk far more, sometimes to the point that you feel you can't get a word in edgewise. They're just trying to make sure their position is well-protected.
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    I'm interested in what you percieve me to be. Johari/Nohari

  7. #27
    Senior Member Shimmy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thessaly View Post
    How can I enlighten him in a manner that won't be construed as debunking his knowledge? I suppose you're right that I may be assuming he doesn't know things. Why is it so hard for me to understand this guy? It's like I have to do a mental 180 to get into his brain shoes. I really want to get along with him though even if it means bending over backwards.
    It's all how you look at it. If you feel of it as changing his mind you will only build resistance, if you feel of it as coming to a solution you will automatically convey your message in that way, and ENTP's love solutions. You posted this earlier:
    He perceives me to be condescending merely by not assuming he knows everything in the entire world.
    It tells me more about your mindset then it does about his. After all, these are your words expressing your view. Apart from that, I find INFP's difficult to talk to because they hold so strong to their value systems and good intentions. As good as they may be, they tend to annoy the ENTP who thinks of them as rigid guidelines that exclude different possibilities.

    Here are some very simple linguistic skills everybody can learn. Say "Yes, and..." rather then "but". Say "that's a good point" or "I understand" before giving another alternative or your own viewpoint. When face to face, nod politely as he speaks. There's a billion of these little things that can help you make most conversations go smooth. You could find a book on communication techniques, it's quite interesting.
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  8. #28
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thessaly View Post
    He's taken a ton of tests and he is unequivocally an ENTP. I'll see if I can find a chat of ours for you to examine later. I think both of your above conclusions are probably true. Untempered arrogance and miscommunication due to our personality differences.
    great! can't wait to read it.
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  9. #29
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thessaly View Post
    I don't get it. We will be casually conversing and then all of a sudden the smallest thing will set him off and I have no idea what is going on. I inadvertently piss him off a million times within 10 minutes of talking.
    Are you sure you are pissing him off with your arguments - and not the fact that you keep accusing him of being pissed off? I hate when people tell me my mental state. Nothing will get a rise out of me quicker... that, and mopey people. People who jump on the "woe is me" bandwagon get really sharp responses from me. But that still doesn't mean I'm pissed off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    It's just that their Ne is catching on to things and they're bursting it out like mad, because with Ne, you have to spurt things out, before you've lost it again.
    Very well said.

    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    because either you've got a very closed-minded ass on your hands who (and this is weird for me at least) isn't open to another's point of view, OR you're saying some things in such a way that he really believes you're being condescending..
    Yeah, good point. Or you could just be ultra-sensitive and/or paranoid.

    I'm not suggesting that we can't be arrogant pricks, but the anger thing is weird. I just can't vibe with that. Has this person told you flat out that he is pissed at you?

    Why does this guy mean so much to you? If you don't feel comfortable in a conversation with him, what are you clinging to and why?

  10. #30
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    I wish I knew an ENTP irl to know what all the fuss is about.

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