[ENTP] Why do ENTPs perceive any form of disagreement as a challenge to an epic duel?

[Thessaly]

Yeah, good point. Or you could just be ultra-sensitive and/or paranoid.

I'm not suggesting that we can't be arrogant pricks, but the anger thing is weird. I just can't vibe with that. Has this person told you flat out that he is pissed at you?

Why does this guy mean so much to you? If you don't feel comfortable in a conversation with him, what are you clinging to and why?

He doesn't necessarily mean a lot to me. In fact I cut my losses last night. No more ENTP sadism for me *sighs* I just really enjoyed his mind, but he wasn't interested in sharing it in the end; just his short temper and feigned superiority.

This is the second ENTP to totally mess with me. Why are some of you so maddeningly brilliant yet possess the emotional maturity of a 14 year old? This is unbelievably frustrating because I seem to be drawn to this type time and time again and you stick in my mind like glue a long time after the fact too.

 

[Thessaly]

great! can't wait to read it.

Looks like I won't be needing your analysis anymore, but thanks hun

 

[JivinJeffJones]

Looks like I won't be needing your analysis anymore, but thanks hun

Don't spurn the analytical services of Digest. If you're drawn to ENTPs then why not take this opportunity to figure out what's causing the problems? Nothing to lose.

 

[Tamske]

Can I just answer the title question?

Because we love epic mind duels. We want to pick apart every reasoning and every feeling until things break down either on their or on our side or on both, thus expanding our understanding of ourselves and the world.
You disagree with me? Great! Let's discuss until I understand your reasoning and background which causes you to have this opinion. You disagree with something I thought as self-evident? Even greater! Now I know I've taken something for granted that I actually shouldn't.
I love picking apart reasonings and verbal sparring. I'm not really interested in converting you. I'm interested in either converting you, either being converted (if your reasoning is stronger and/or fits better into the whole net of ideas), or understanding each other's point of view and looking forward to another lovely verbal sparring match.

 

[sculpting]

He doesn't necessarily mean a lot to me. In fact I cut my losses last night. No more ENTP sadism for me *sighs* I just really enjoyed his mind, but he wasn't interested in sharing it in the end; just his short temper and feigned superiority.

This is the second ENTP to totally mess with me. Why are some of you so maddeningly brilliant yet possess the emotional maturity of a 14 year old? This is unbelievably frustrating because I seem to be drawn to this type time and time again and you stick in my mind like glue a long time after the fact too.

Are you sure you are not an ENFP? (Just a funny thought...given you are drawn to these guys)

Anyways that bolded section kinda bugs me. You are passing judgment on him as a person when in reality this need for debate is very hard wired and innate. If I may make stuff up (cause I do love to do so) I'd suggest the entps-especially when younger need to use Ti extensively, externally to help develop it.

He is going through a phase which may be hard on you-but is essential for him as part of his development. Now if you were just another person off the street, sure just say he is a jerk. But you have a whole thread of entps, and a knowledge of personality type, explaining that this is pretty innate-so to dismiss it as emotional immaturity after all of their comments-well you are choosing to judge him via your innate Fi prefs, rather than acknowledging he is a different "type" of person who will behave differently-not as the result of emotional immaturity, but because he is not like you.

Totally cool not to hang out with him and avoid him-but just recognize you are ignoring data when passing judgment-thus the judgment will be incorrect.

(I ENTPs masochistically)

 

[Thessaly]

Are you sure you are not an ENFP? (Just a funny thought...given you are drawn to these guys)

Anyways that bolded section kinda bugs me. You are passing judgment on him as a person when in reality this need for debate is very hard wired and innate. If I may make stuff up (cause I do love to do so) I'd suggest the entps-especially when younger need to use Ti extensively, externally to help develop it.

He is going through a phase which may be hard on you-but is essential for him as part of his development. Now if you were just another person off the street, sure just say he is a jerk. But you have a whole thread of entps, and a knowledge of personality type, explaining that this is pretty innate-so to dismiss it as emotional immaturity after all of their comments-well you are choosing to judge him via your innate Fi prefs, rather than acknowledging he is a different "type" of person who will behave differently-not as the result of emotional immaturity, but because he is not like you.

Totally cool not to hang out with him and avoid him-but just recognize you are ignoring data when passing judgment-thus the judgment will be incorrect.

(I ENTPs masochistically)

Did you read anything I said? He becomes cross with me if I disagree with him and gets personal. It's not real debating. He actually told me the other day he's just been using me to feed his ego *sighs*

Everything in his life speaks to his emotional maturity from his inability to discern emotion in others to his inability to take responsibility for the things he wants in life. I honestly feel sorry for him.

Perhaps I don't possess impenetrable logic, but I do have a solid understanding of emotion, how to channel it effectively, and the role it plays in determining one's level of happiness and success in life.

I believe in his future emotional growth though, which can take place at any age, given the proper environment. I think he'd be wiser by now if he didn't chronically underestimate others in overestimating himself.

 

[Jaguar]

Perhaps I don't possess impenetrable logic...

Nor does a person who claims to have it.

 

[Shimmy]

Did you read anything I said? He becomes cross with me if I disagree with him and gets personal. It's not real debating. He actually told me the other day he's just been using me to feed his ego *sighs*

Everything in his life speaks to his emotional maturity from his inability to discern emotion in others to his inability to take responsibility for the things he wants in life. I honestly feel sorry for him.

Perhaps I don't possess impenetrable logic, but I do have a solid understanding of emotion, how to channel it effectively, and the role it plays in determining one's level of happiness and success in life.

I believe in his future emotional growth though, which can take place at any age, given the proper environment. I think he'd be wiser by now if he didn't chronically underestimate others in overestimating himself.

I'm sorry to read this. Best you leave him alone if this kind of interaction is the standard. Most ENTPs needs to be smacked in the head metaphorically from time to time, regarding either his unmanageable ideas and his recklessness regarding other people's emotions. You don't seem like the right person to do that, INFP's generally are way to nice to do it.

 

[digesthisickness]

Did you read anything I said? He becomes cross with me if I disagree with him and gets personal. It's not real debating. He actually told me the other day he's just been using me to feed his ego *sighs*

sounds like something i'd say to someone if i couldn't get rid of them any other way.

 

[Thessaly]

I'm sorry to read this. Best you leave him alone if this kind of interaction is the standard. Most ENTPs needs to be smacked in the head metaphorically from time to time, regarding either his unmanageable ideas and his recklessness regarding other people's emotions. You don't seem like the right person to do that, INFP's generally are way to nice to do it.

I did give him a verbal lashing. I can be unmercifully cutting...I just feel guilty about it afterward. I'd like to think he'll put some thought into my analysis of his behavior, but I'm doubtful of it.

 

[Thessaly]

sounds like something i'd say to someone if i couldn't get rid of them any other way.

Perhaps that could be the case, but he was the one initiating contact. He told me the below and then later reasoned the need I filled was feeding his ego.

"I'm angry at myself for feeling the need to keep talking to someone I don't really respect and I wrongly take it out on you. It doesn't make sense why I keep needing to talk to you yet I do and that pisses me off."

I just don't get how someone could get an ego boost from someone they don't respect? I would think anything validating I might have thrown his way would be discounted by that fact.

 

[digesthisickness]

Perhaps that could be the case, but he was the one initiating contact. He told me the below and then later reasoned the need I filled was feeding his ego.

"I'm angry at myself for feeling the need to keep talking to someone I don't really respect and I wrongly take it out on you. It doesn't make sense why I keep needing to talk to you yet I do and that pisses me off."

I just don't get how someone could get an ego boost from someone they don't respect? I would think anything validating I might have thrown his way would be discounted by that fact.

ah, sounds like brutal honesty to me. just that while he's talking honestly to you about how you were just used to feed his ego, he's simultaneously fucking with yours.

either way, though, i think you said you two weren't talking anymore, so i'm sure you'll forget he ever existed soon enough.

 

[Aleksei]

@ OP: We are gigantic show-offs, our auxiliary Ti makes us rather technical (Not as much as INTPs, but still to a significant degree), and our primary Ne means we generally develop and refine ideas by using other people as a sounding board. All that leads ENTPs to be extremely argumentative, though we're actually not as easy to offend as you seem to think. Just go with it.

 

[Thessaly]

Meh, my ego hasn't been damaged by any of this. I do find it a bit disconcerting that I couldn't determine his motives myself though. I wear some pretty thick rose colored glasses and usually concentrate on the best in people so not too surprised about that.

 

[digesthisickness]

@ OP: We are gigantic show-offs, our auxiliary Ti makes us rather technical (Not as much as INTPs, but still to a significant degree), and our primary Ne means we generally develop and refine ideas by using other people as a sounding board. All that leads ENTPs to be extremely argumentative, though we're actually not as easy to offend as you seem to think. Just go with it.

you really should read the thread first. it's more complex than that.

 

[Thessaly]

you really should read the thread first. it's more complex than that.

In an indirect way though it help makes a bit more sense of his actions. If Ne makes you guys quite dependent on others for evaluating your ideas, which are central to your identity, then his drive for validation is more understandable.

Being introverted I rely very little on external cues for self evaluation. His behavior is quite at odds with how I operate. I still find it all quite irrational and perplexing.

 

[Tamske]

I've read more of your posts, Thessaly...

What you describe isn't the verbal sparring I was talking about in my post. You aren't responsible for his ego, for pity's sake!
Perhaps this might be too harsh on him, but now I'm thinking about an aquaintance of mine, who is narcistic. He's probably also ENTP or maybe ENFP. He understands the art of making other people feel sorry for him, while most of his problems are caused by his own behavior. He's also a genius, witty, and generally fun to hang around with until you disagree with him.
Maybe that's something you should look into. I'm not saying your ENTP is a narcist, but it's a possibility he has such a tendency.

I'm sorry for you. Remember... you aren't responsible for his happiness, nor are you responsible for anybody's happiness. You can do lots of things to help people feel better, feel welcome and at ease. You can probably even help people on their way to a happy life. But they've got to make the choices themselves, they've got to accept your help, they have to shape their lives. Ultimately it's their life and if they choose to be unhappy unless everything is perfect, there isn't much you can do.

 

[visaisahero]

Looks like we have a case of under-developed Fe and Si. I remember when I used to be a little bit like that myself. It's a shame.

 

[Shimmy]

I did give him a verbal lashing. I can be unmercifully cutting...I just feel guilty about it afterward. I'd like to think he'll put some thought into my analysis of his behavior, but I'm doubtful of it.

He'll think about it extensively, he might not actually reach a conclusion though.

 

[JivinJeffJones]

The feeding his ego thing doesn't surprise me. He sounds pretty insecure, and wanted an adoring audience rather than a friend. When you disagree with him you not only fail to feed his ego but actually challenge it. Thus the purpose of your 'friendship' is voided. That's my take with the info supplied at least, though it may be biased by the fact you're a fellow INFP.

Frankly I'm surprised you stuck it out for as long as you did. Exploring that would probably be a whole other thread though.