[ENTJ] ENTJs are the scariest type?

[jenocyde]

Yeah, that's what I meant. They appear to be random, but are quite coherent at first. They dismiss coherence after they've "lost it" though.

I can't relate this to my experiences. They are aggressive, they just start goofing around if they've realized that they can't win. They don't lose, they either...

a) win OR
b) present the whole debate as ridiculous.

"X is true."
"No, X is actually false. I'll show you (...)."
"Lol you're stupid, this whole thing is stupid. Your butt stinks. I'm outta here."

Plus, they're way more efficient before a crowd. In a one-on-one situation, they appear significantly weaker.

Oh, you're just talking about a debate? Well everyone was has different styles and that changes with age.

I don't understand how someone can appear more efficient in front of a crowd. Maybe your perception of the situation changes when there is a crowd. Maybe the crowd simply intimidates you and you assign that fear to the ENTP "showing off" or something. I doubt that a person can become smarter or more efficient just by being watched. But I don't know who you know, so what do I know...

Anyway, I thought you were talking about a more serious situation. Like a revenge situation. A petty debate is nothing. Once it gets to the point where clear lines have been drawn in the sand, you will see a marked difference. Or actually, you probably won't - and that's what makes the ENTP have so much potential for viciousness.

But back to the ENTJ issue - I guess it's a general consensus that they are not as scary as they seem. OP - would you ever just directly confront your teacher to level the playing field?

 

[JHBowden]

ENTJs are the scariest type?

Boo.

 

[Litvyak]

I don't understand how someone can appear more efficient in front of a crowd.

Of course they can, how is this even a question? If something illogical is presented with an overwhelming attitude and fine rhetorics, it will be admired by people, and serves as a positive feedback for the speaker, further enhancing his/her self-assertion and the effect on the crowd.

Maybe your perception of the situation changes when there is a crowd. Maybe the crowd simply intimidates you and you assign that fear to the ENTP "showing off" or something.

Stop making such assumptions.
I've had my fair share of debates with ENTPs, you didn't have your fair share of debates with me. My line of thinking might have a thousand root causes, it is pretty useless to guess if you don't know me irl.

Anyway, I thought you were talking about a more serious situation. Like a revenge situation.

No, not at all.

A petty debate is nothing.

We disagree. It is an important test of skills and a marker of positions in a certain chain of hierarchy.

Once it gets to the point where clear lines have been drawn in the sand, you will see a marked difference.

We disagree again. Debating with an NTJ pretty much requires "clear lines drawn in the sand", otherwise it's just not working.

Or actually, you probably won't - and that's what makes the ENTP have so much potential for viciousness.

You underestimate me.

 

[jenocyde]

Of course they can, how is this even a question? If something illogical is presented with an overwhelming attitude and fine rhetorics, it will be admired by people, and serves as a positive feedback for the speaker, further enhancing his/her self-assertion and the effect on the crowd.

So you are asserting that someone can actually appear smarter to you when they are standing in front of other people?

Stop making such assumptions.

I was presenting ideas, not making assumptions.

My line of thinking might have a thousand root causes, it is pretty useless to guess if you don't know me irl.

Exactly. It might have a thousand root causes.

We disagree. It is an important test of skills and a marker of positions in a certain chain of hierarchy.

I made that statement in regards to the scope of this subject matter. I thought you were talking about something more severe. I am not discounting debates in general.

We disagree again. Debating with an NTJ pretty much requires "clear lines drawn in the sand", otherwise it's just not working.

You've misunderstood me.

Clear lines in the sand, to me, is when things turn personal or vicious. Debating is impersonal.

You underestimate me.

Wrong. I haven't even bothered to estimate you.

 

[Litvyak]

So you are asserting that someone can actually appear smarter to you when they are standing in front of other people?

Reread my post.

If something illogical is presented with an overwhelming attitude and fine rhetorics, it will be admired by people, and serves as a positive feedback for the speaker, further enhancing his/her self-assertion and the effect on the crowd.

I am "asserting" that a good rhetor can feel stronger and more confident even with false logic if admired by a lot of people, and extra confidence is a strong feat of arms. It isn't about my perception of smart.

I was presenting ideas, not making assumptions.

Stop presenting such ideas, then.

Exactly. It might have a thousand root causes.

Which does not automatically degrade my line of thinking, but makes it practically impossible for you to guess why I think what I think.

I made that statement in regards to the scope of this subject matter. I thought you were talking about something more severe. I am not discounting debates in general.

Oh, OK. It's alright then.

Clear lines in the sand, to me, is when things turn personal or vicious. Debating is impersonal.

Wrong. Debating is never completely impersonal, just like every human interaction.
You can strive to keep it as impersonal as possible though.

Wrong. I haven't even bothered to estimate you.

Cheers.

 

[Rainne]

ENTJs aren't scary, in fact, I find them quite fun.

 

[figsfiggyfigs]

Something tells me that he probably really enjoys doing that.

Believe me, I know that, LOL, it scares me in the " What a brilliant-astonishing -mind you have!"

ENTJs aren't scary, in fact, I find them quite fun.

AGREED!

 

[LadyJaye]

ENTJ female bff is constantly being accused of being mean and overwhelming, which sometimes is the truth. But most of the time, I think it's that people don't understand the way she sees the world, and then the force of personality just rolls them right over. She doesn't have that effect on me, but I think ENFP's were made to be ENTJ bunker busters.

I have an INTJ male friend, who, when in the same room with the ENTJ, turns into a crazy person. Competition that escalates into something truly horrifying because she won't back down and he tosses another log on the fire. I no longer allow them in the same room when I'm present.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

An ENTJ that has completely lost it would be quite a scary thing I think.

I know I wouldn't want to see what I would be like if I was totally off my rocker with anger.

 

[uumlau]

My Dad is ENTJ, I'm pretty sure.

His facade is remarkably intimidating. 6' 6" of intimidating. (I'm only 6' 2".)

But underneath, he's very gentle and kind.

 

[INTPness]

They are aggressive, they just start goofing around if they've realized that they can't win. They don't lose, they either...

a) win OR
b) present the whole debate as ridiculous.

What do INTJ's do when they realize that they can't win?

 

[Litvyak]

What do INTJ's do when they realize that they can't win?

Is it in any way relevant to our previous discussion?
Be just a little less transparent, for God's sake

 

[INTPness]

Is it in any way relevant to our previous discussion?
Be just a little less transparent, for God's sake

I'm not trying to debate with you and I'm not really concerned with your previous discussion with other people. Nor was "transparency" even a consideration. I'm simply asking a straightforward question. Nevermind.

 

[proximo]

No way. ENTJ's are pussycats compared to any INXX except INFP, says I.

 

[uumlau]

What do INTJ's do when they realize that they can't win?

A serious answer to your question is:

INTJs don't think of it as winning. I've never felt like I've "won" an argument in my entire life. Nor do I feel like I've ever lost an argument. I have, however, had some interesting discussions and some really pointless arguments.


A bit more detail ...
If I "win" an argument, it isn't because I'm smarter or wittier or more clever, it's because I am correct in the first place, and the other person simply was not. "I" didn't win the argument, the truth of the matter did.

If I "lose" an argument, I just learned something cool. I think most xNTJs appreciate this. If you make a compelling point to an xNTJ, it will usually be acknowledged. (In my experience, other xNTJs are the ones most likely to say to a point of mine, "Oh, yeah, you're right about that. I didn't know that." At worst, we end up at an "agree to disagree" level.)

Usually, though, "arguments" devolve into "pointless discussions," one of the topics of which is, "what the discussion is really about." Because, of course, if we agreed on what the discussion was about, it wouldn't be pointless.

 

[SillySapienne]

I don't think so.

I think it would be relatively easy to a.) find their buttons

and then, b.) push their buttons.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

A serious answer to your question is:

INTJs don't think of it as winning. I've never felt like I've "won" an argument in my entire life. Nor do I feel like I've ever lost an argument. I have, however, had some interesting discussions and some really pointless arguments.


A bit more detail ...
If I "win" an argument, it isn't because I'm smarter or wittier or more clever, it's because I am correct in the first place, and the other person simply was not. "I" didn't win the argument, the truth of the matter did.

If I "lose" an argument, I just learned something cool. I think most xNTJs appreciate this. If you make a compelling point to an xNTJ, it will usually be acknowledged. (In my experience, other xNTJs are the ones most likely to say to a point of mine, "Oh, yeah, you're right about that. I didn't know that." At worst, we end up at an "agree to disagree" level.)

Usually, though, "arguments" devolve into "pointless discussions," one of the topics of which is, "what the discussion is really about." Because, of course, if we agreed on what the discussion was about, it wouldn't be pointless.

I totally feel this way too, especially can relate to the last paragraph recently. I think it's our Ni that makes us just open to the truth, no matter where it might come from.

 

[Riva]

Yes ENTJs are scary. But not intentionally.

ENTJs talk to the point without buttering things up, which is why they appear intimidating (Much like ESTJs). But ESTJs have well developed Si. Which means they know by observation (Si) social graces. They can chit chat and beat around the bush. This is not Te it is Si. ENTJs on the other hand have Ni. They are not the the experts on observation skills.

If ENTJs desire to be less intimidating (they know they are) they would use their Ni. Not Si. If Si is used they would be more accepted as Si would use social graces people are used to.
But Ni would come up with something new. Something romantic. A well planned scheme. But this is not very natural as Si. So when ENTJs want to be more graceful they would sound like a character from a romance novel than someone who is natural (like a ESFP).

And mind you it is hard to keep up a romance facade for too long. So they would go back to chasing people away.

 

[FDG]

as ENTJs are enthusiastic larger-than-life people

That's how I feel (well, how I would like to be seen mostly) about myself. Although I have been told I can look scary when I'm extremely immersed in a given task requiring full concentration.

But Ni would come up with something new. Something romantic. A well planned scheme. But this is not very natural as Si. So when ENTJs want to be more graceful they would sound like a character from a romance novel than someone who is natural (like a ESFP).

Lol! I see, I didn't think about it that way, but your analysis is probably correct, yes.

 

[Gewitter27]

I don't think so, simply on technicality.

ENTJ's have a more scary impression. Their E projects it well, so people are fooled into thinking they are scariest. This is certainly not reality, though.

INTJ's are far scarier in reality, they just don't show it as much. You see, ENTJ's are E's. Of course. Obviously they take in their environment and project out into it. However, the intake of the environment will change them. INTJs take far in from the environment, therefore being more contained within the swirling darkness within their minds. This obviously makes them far scarier when they desire to show it.