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  1. #31
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvyak View Post
    They are aggressive, they just start goofing around if they've realized that they can't win. They don't lose, they either...

    a) win OR
    b) present the whole debate as ridiculous.
    What do INTJ's do when they realize that they can't win?

  2. #32
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    What do INTJ's do when they realize that they can't win?
    Is it in any way relevant to our previous discussion?
    Be just a little less transparent, for God's sake

  3. #33
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvyak View Post
    Is it in any way relevant to our previous discussion?
    Be just a little less transparent, for God's sake
    I'm not trying to debate with you and I'm not really concerned with your previous discussion with other people. Nor was "transparency" even a consideration. I'm simply asking a straightforward question. Nevermind.

  4. #34
    Senior Member proximo's Avatar
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    No way. ENTJ's are pussycats compared to any INXX except INFP, says I.
    I'm male and over 30, FYI.
    Preferences: 20% Extravert, 98% Intuitive, 68% Thinker, 17% Perceiving

  5. #35
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    What do INTJ's do when they realize that they can't win?
    A serious answer to your question is:

    INTJs don't think of it as winning. I've never felt like I've "won" an argument in my entire life. Nor do I feel like I've ever lost an argument. I have, however, had some interesting discussions and some really pointless arguments.


    A bit more detail ...
    If I "win" an argument, it isn't because I'm smarter or wittier or more clever, it's because I am correct in the first place, and the other person simply was not. "I" didn't win the argument, the truth of the matter did.

    If I "lose" an argument, I just learned something cool. I think most xNTJs appreciate this. If you make a compelling point to an xNTJ, it will usually be acknowledged. (In my experience, other xNTJs are the ones most likely to say to a point of mine, "Oh, yeah, you're right about that. I didn't know that." At worst, we end up at an "agree to disagree" level.)

    Usually, though, "arguments" devolve into "pointless discussions," one of the topics of which is, "what the discussion is really about." Because, of course, if we agreed on what the discussion was about, it wouldn't be pointless.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  6. #36
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    I don't think so.

    I think it would be relatively easy to a.) find their buttons

    and then, b.) push their buttons.

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

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    Intelligentle sparkles

  7. #37
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    A serious answer to your question is:

    INTJs don't think of it as winning. I've never felt like I've "won" an argument in my entire life. Nor do I feel like I've ever lost an argument. I have, however, had some interesting discussions and some really pointless arguments.


    A bit more detail ...
    If I "win" an argument, it isn't because I'm smarter or wittier or more clever, it's because I am correct in the first place, and the other person simply was not. "I" didn't win the argument, the truth of the matter did.

    If I "lose" an argument, I just learned something cool. I think most xNTJs appreciate this. If you make a compelling point to an xNTJ, it will usually be acknowledged. (In my experience, other xNTJs are the ones most likely to say to a point of mine, "Oh, yeah, you're right about that. I didn't know that." At worst, we end up at an "agree to disagree" level.)

    Usually, though, "arguments" devolve into "pointless discussions," one of the topics of which is, "what the discussion is really about." Because, of course, if we agreed on what the discussion was about, it wouldn't be pointless.
    I totally feel this way too, especially can relate to the last paragraph recently. I think it's our Ni that makes us just open to the truth, no matter where it might come from.
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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  8. #38
    Riva
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    Yes ENTJs are scary. But not intentionally.

    ENTJs talk to the point without buttering things up, which is why they appear intimidating (Much like ESTJs). But ESTJs have well developed Si. Which means they know by observation (Si) social graces. They can chit chat and beat around the bush. This is not Te it is Si. ENTJs on the other hand have Ni. They are not the the experts on observation skills.

    If ENTJs desire to be less intimidating (they know they are) they would use their Ni. Not Si. If Si is used they would be more accepted as Si would use social graces people are used to.
    But Ni would come up with something new. Something romantic. A well planned scheme. But this is not very natural as Si. So when ENTJs want to be more graceful they would sound like a character from a romance novel than someone who is natural (like a ESFP).

    And mind you it is hard to keep up a romance facade for too long. So they would go back to chasing people away.

  9. #39
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix13 View Post
    as ENTJs are enthusiastic larger-than-life people
    That's how I feel (well, how I would like to be seen mostly) about myself. Although I have been told I can look scary when I'm extremely immersed in a given task requiring full concentration.

    But Ni would come up with something new. Something romantic. A well planned scheme. But this is not very natural as Si. So when ENTJs want to be more graceful they would sound like a character from a romance novel than someone who is natural (like a ESFP).
    Lol! I see, I didn't think about it that way, but your analysis is probably correct, yes.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  10. #40
    Senior Member Gewitter27's Avatar
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    I don't think so, simply on technicality.

    ENTJ's have a more scary impression. Their E projects it well, so people are fooled into thinking they are scariest. This is certainly not reality, though.

    INTJ's are far scarier in reality, they just don't show it as much. You see, ENTJ's are E's. Of course. Obviously they take in their environment and project out into it. However, the intake of the environment will change them. INTJs take far in from the environment, therefore being more contained within the swirling darkness within their minds. This obviously makes them far scarier when they desire to show it.
    I 96% N 93% T 75% P 63% 5w4 sp/sx/so ILI
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    I'm interested in what you percieve me to be. Johari/Nohari

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