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[NT] Is this a NTJ thing ?

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,723
When you learn do you learn much better if you know very well what to do with data you are trying to learn/understand ?

How quickly do you forget large amorph pile of data if you don't get the chance of applying it ?

How much do you like to learn things that will be needed for winning of some kind ?




Opinions and comments are welcome.
 

teslashock

Geolectric
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Oct 27, 2009
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1,690
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ENTP
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7w6
Yes this sounds very much like a Te thing. There's no point in learning something (or doing anything that requires signifcant effort, for that matter) if there's no external goal to apply it towards. If there's no external goal, then it's a waste.

NTPs are completely different in that they are entertained by some sort of external stimulus (particularly ENTPs) to soak up and analyze to fit towards an increasingly larger web, even if the web is never really used for anything. The entertainment value is enough in itself to continue acquiring knowledge.

Joy for an NTJ is tangible productivity via knoweldge and personal effort. Knowledge of systems is acquired and valued insofar as to be useful to something outside of the system.

Joy for an NTP is making/discovering novel abstract connections between and among systems through increased understanding of the system(s). Knowledge of a system is acquired and valued regardless of how important the system is outside of itself.

Ni/Te is convergent.
Ne/Ti is divergent.
 

Jaguar

Active member
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May 5, 2007
Messages
20,647
Is brushing your teeth with Crest toothpaste an NTJ or NTP thing?
Just checking.
 
G

garbage

Guest
Is brushing your teeth with Crest toothpaste an NTJ or NTP thing?
Just checking.

Hmm. Let's think about this.

NTJs would be more likely to choose a specific toothpaste, where NTPs would be more likely just to buy whatever toothpaste they come across.

So, if Crest is a better-than-average toothpaste, NTJs would be more likely to choose it; brushing your teeth with Crest toothpaste would thus be a NTJ trait. Conversely, if it's worse than average, NTPs would be more likely than NTJs to use it.
 

Jaguar

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Messages
20,647
Hmm. Let's think about this.

NTJs would be more likely to choose a specific toothpaste, where NTPs would be more likely just to buy whatever toothpaste they come across.

So, if Crest is a better-than-average toothpaste, NTJs would be more likely to choose it; brushing your teeth with Crest toothpaste would thus be a NTJ trait. If it's worse than average, NTPs would me more likely than NTJs to use it.

HAHAHAHAHA. :D
 

teslashock

Geolectric
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Oct 27, 2009
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7w6
Is brushing your teeth with Crest toothpaste an NTJ or NTP thing?
Just checking.

Making comparative analogies that effectively and accurately communicate an idea is certainly not an NTJ thing. Or at least it's not a Jaguar thing...

And fyi, NTPs don't brush their teeth.
 

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
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7,038
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ESFP
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9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Is brushing your teeth with Crest toothpaste an NTJ or NTP thing?
Just checking.

Shit, I just brushed with Crest this morning. *changes type*
 

Litvyak

No Cigar
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Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
NTJs do not need teeth. They live in their minds.
 

JHBowden

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May 14, 2009
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201
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ENTJ
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3
When you learn do you learn much better if you know very well what to do with data you are trying to learn/understand ?
Being clear about questions is always more important than being clear about answers.

Get an idea of what you're looking for. Then confirm if it is or is not there. We can't do anything with data if we don't know what we want to find or what to expect first.

Same thing often works deductively. Sometimes we need to assume something is true in order to prove a contradiction. Propositions don't proposition themselves, just as data does not data itself.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
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Jun 6, 2008
Messages
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Ok here is about what this is all about.


The thing is that I have a serious problem with education system of my country. I have a problem wiith the most basic prinnciple how we do things here.


It goes something like this.


Me: Why someone didn't make that classification ?
Prof: Because *insert million reasons*
Me: Ok, but what about the equipment you have show us in your presentation?
Prof: Well those pictures were taken abroad and it is unlikely that you will work with something like that anytime soon. (if ever)
Me : So what we will do on this class ? Will we research anything ?
Prof: You know what ? I have wrote a book about this subject a few years ago so the only thing you have to do is learn all the fact from the book and then I will ask you 5 questions on the exam. That is it.



But since you don't apply any of that knowledge you forget most of it during next few months. What means that you don't get any real sense achivement. So thanks to this approach after years of being a student I have only about 6hours of practical experiance. What means that I am basicly good for nothing. (and as everybody knows INTJs don't like that)
However other student are not that much bothered by this. Since everyone just wants the paper that they have finnished college.


So what I am trying to figure out is

1. Is it just me ?
2. Would any other NTJ have a problem with this ?
3. Would any sane person outside of my Eastern European banana republic have a problem with this ?
 

ObeyBunny

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Mar 8, 2010
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573
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INTJ
NTJs do not need teeth. They live in their minds.

I happened to be drinking from a glass of soda while I was reading though the comments of this thread. When I got to this one I choking on my drink though my laugh. :)
 

Kalach

Filthy Apes!
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Dec 3, 2008
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4,310
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INTJ
More or less on topic:

I've been wondering WHY extraverted thinking is closure oriented. Why would recognising that a procedure is imperfect lead one to want to see it perfected? Why should a logical appreciation of sequencing lead to instantiating that sequence? Why should knowing what should be done to complete a project lead one to actually insisting on completing that project? Why does one not merely observe the truth and move on?

It's an extraverted thinking value that one impose good external order? (And an introverted thinking value that one impose good internal order?)

Thinking functions have values? Or is it people who have values?
 

ObeyBunny

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Mar 8, 2010
Messages
573
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INTJ
Ok here is about what this is all about.

Thanks to this approach after years of being a student I have only about 6hours of practical experiance. What means that I am basicly good for nothing. (and as everybody knows INTJs don't like that)
However other student are not that much bothered by this. Since everyone just wants the paper that they have finnished college.


So what I am trying to figure out is

1. Is it just me ?
2. Would any other NTJ have a problem with this ?
3. Would any sane person outside of my Eastern European banana republic have a problem with this ?

No, it isn’t you. It’s a fundamental flaw that needs to be addressed in your school/college.

So far, these are the only reasons I can think of as to why your school has a teaching method as lousy as it is:
  1. Your teachers are only being catering to the auditory crowd, leaving the visual learners and tactile learners to sit in the back of the class without the benefit of an education.
  2. Your teachers are trying to keep the equipment pristine so that when (I don’t know what they are actually called ) an educational inspector comes in to see if you guys are well equipped, the teachers can point to the unused stuff and say “see? They have the tools they need to excel in the class.”
  3. You’re teachers don’t bother with one-on-one training.

The only solution I can come up with that won’t turn your teaches into your enemies is to record the lectures and look up on-line tutorials on what ever subject you’re having trouble in.

Would any sane person outside of my Eastern European banana republic have a problem with this ?

The story you’re telling is hauntingly similar to what my brother went though. He was a perfectly normal boy, but someone who had difficulty learning if it wasn’t ‘hands-on.’ Rather than cater to his needs, they sent him to the back of the classroom, told him to be quiet. He had a string of bad teachers like that, and so he struggled though elementary, junior high, and high school.

If what you’re going though is anything like that, then you have my firm support and righteous anger toward your college.

(sorry for my outburst.)
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
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Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,723
More or less on topic:

I've been wondering WHY extraverted thinking is closure oriented. Why would recognising that a procedure is imperfect lead one to want to see it perfected? Why should a logical appreciation of sequencing lead to instantiating that sequence? Why should knowing what should be done to complete a project lead one to actually insisting on completing that project? Why does one not merely observe the truth and move on?

It's an extraverted thinking value that one impose good external order? (And an introverted thinking value that one impose good internal order?)

Thinking functions have values? Or is it people who have values?


My vote goes to "people".


Well I don't mind researching and some randomness when it comes to ideas. (as Teslashock said)


However my problem is that I am not doing anying. I haven't learn how to do anything. Plus I am not really learning the theory since I have to learn large number of unnrelated fact which I don't rememeber for long since I don't apply them. Also I have a new plie of fact to learn every day. So in the end I simply forget most thing.


However the things are not this simple. Since if you have a generations that don't know how to do anything. Then you technically have a self-destruction of a society on the long run.
 

ObeyBunny

New member
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Mar 8, 2010
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573
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INTJ
More or less on topic:

I've been wondering WHY extraverted thinking is closure oriented. Why would recognising that a procedure is imperfect lead one to want to see it perfected? Why should a logical appreciation of sequencing lead to instantiating that sequence? Why should knowing what should be done to complete a project lead one to actually insisting on completing that project? Why does one not merely observe the truth and move on?
Wanting closure for learning a topic is sort of a J thing (wanting to know how the knowledge will end up being useful.) Partial information is flawed information; and by acting on flawed information, whether or not you find useful results would end up being a matter of chance.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,723
No, it isn’t you. It’s a fundamental flaw that needs to be addressed in your school/college.

So far, these are the only reasons I can think of as to why your school has a teaching method as lousy as it is:
  1. Your teachers are only being catering to the auditory crowd, leaving the visual learners and tactile learners to sit in the back of the class without the benefit of an education.
  2. Your teachers are trying to keep the equipment pristine so that when (I don’t know what they are actually called ) an educational inspector comes in to see if you guys are well equipped, the teachers can point to the unused stuff and say “see? They have the tools they need to excel in the class.”
  3. You’re teachers don’t bother with one-on-one training.

The only solution I can come up with that won’t turn your teaches into your enemies is to record the lectures and look up on-line tutorials on what ever subject you’re having trouble in.



The story you’re telling is hauntingly similar to what my brother went though. He was a perfectly normal boy, but someone who had difficulty learning if it wasn’t ‘hands-on.’ Rather than cater to his needs, they sent him to the back of the classroom, told him to be quiet. He had a string of bad teachers like that, and so he struggled though elementary, junior high, and high school.

If what you’re going though is anything like that, then you have my firm support and righteous anger toward your college.

(sorry for my outburst.)


Well I don't mind theory at all. However I really have the need to be able to do something with it for the most part.


Also I don't don't think that majority of teacher are really bad people. Because it is a fact that they are underfunded since goverment is spending money on nonsense.


It is just the system as a whole is not working at all. I mean this is not just my college this is country wide phenomenon.
 

ObeyBunny

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Mar 8, 2010
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INTJ
It is just the system as a whole is not working at all. I mean this is not just my college this is country wide phenomenon.

Too many students and not enough field trip money (If the equipment you were talking about was off-campus). If this is the case, then I’m not sure what to do.

(sorry for my outburst earlier, I got my education from public schools down around Los Angeles, California [we have terrible schools] )
 
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