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[INTP] INTP's Amoral or Immoral?

INTP's Amoral or Immoral

  • Amoral

    Votes: 17 68.0%
  • Immoral

    Votes: 10 40.0%

  • Total voters
    25

olly_olly

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Mar 17, 2010
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5
Amoral-ism: The complete absence of moral beliefs..Unaware of or indifferent to questions of right or wrong.

Immoral-ism: The understanding of morals but choosing to not conform to them.

So my first question, am I the only one that feels either one of these two almost all the time?
And question two (if I am not the only one) which one do you think exists more consistently with the INTP?
 

disregard

mrs
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
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7,826
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Being that INTPs use Fe, I would say that they are not by definition amoral.

Their value-judgment function is quaternary (inferior), so they may be the least likely to adhere to a moral code.
 

olly_olly

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Ok so something more along the lines of choosing logic over morality? That is more like what happens to me most of the time, but sometime I just don't see why some things are moral and others aren't (still, might have something to do with the logic of them lol)
 

disregard

mrs
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Could you give me an example of choosing logic over morality? I want to make my post relevant to what you have in mind. I have a tendency to miss the mark when guessing specifics.
 

cafe

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What I've seen, in my husband at least, is a very strong set of morals that may or may not line up with other people's concepts of morality. IMO his moral code is superior to most people's and he follows his own code a lot more than most people do.

He will comply with people's expectations up to a point in order to avoid the hassle that goes along with making waves, but not much more than that.
 

INTP

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i got pretty strong morals, but if someone brakes my moral rules, i wont act morally at all towards him anymore
 

Trentham

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What I've seen, in my husband at least, is a very strong set of morals that may or may not line up with other people's concepts of morality. IMO his moral code is superior to most people's and he follows his own code a lot more than most people do.

That's the way I operate as well.

I don't really concern myself with so much with the fiat morality that's legislated by laws of the people, religious dictates or whatever. I live by a set of self-defined principles that enable me to get along peacefully in society. True, a lot of these respect those aforementioned laws and dictates, but others ignore certain of them. Either way I go through life not causing harm to others. I wouldn't call that amoral or immoral no matter how else it might be defined.
 

INTPness

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What I've seen, in my husband at least, is a very strong set of morals that may or may not line up with other people's concepts of morality. IMO his moral code is superior to most people's and he follows his own code a lot more than most people do.

He will comply with people's expectations up to a point in order to avoid the hassle that goes along with making waves, but not much more than that.

This!
 

olly_olly

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Alright a case I would choose logic over morality would probably be something like the illegal status of marijuana for fully developed adults (and having people-killing cigarettes and alcohol legal), or also something like protecting a country like Israel over other countries.
 

disregard

mrs
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Alright a case I would choose logic over morality would probably be something like the illegal status of marijuana for fully developed adults (and having people-killing cigarettes and alcohol legal), or also something like protecting a country like Israel over other countries.

Perhaps to those with the power it is logical to have tobacco and alcohol be legal. Perhaps it's not about morality. Perhaps it keeps them in their exclusive community and their children in private school.
 

Totenkindly

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Ok so something more along the lines of choosing logic over morality?

... comply with people's expectations up to a point in order to avoid the hassle that goes along with making waves, but not much more than that.

Those. In actuality, people develop a code that is "sensible" to them, it's just that INTP sensibility is based on (1) not having arbitrary morals and (2) the morals must make sense in some rational way, rather than being based on tradition, or culture per se, or the reigning authorities.

An INTP could choose to obey the current authority if she thought it was sensible to do so, but in situations where it does not seem sensible but pointless (i.e., serves no good purpose in the circumstance at hand), the rule gets jettisoned.

"What's the rule for, and does it make sense?"
That is what gets asked.


As far as amoral and immoral, I view the first as indifference to the rules and the latter as breaking the rules. INTPs seem to be more amoral to me.
 

INTPness

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"What's the rule for, and does it make sense?"
That is what gets asked.

Definitely. There are a lot of rules out there that don't make a whole lot of sense. In society, in the corporate world, in people's minds, etc.
 

cafe

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Perhaps to those with the power it is logical to have tobacco and alcohol be legal. Perhaps it's not about morality. Perhaps it keeps them in their exclusive community and their children in private school.
LOL, yeah. That's the only way marijuana being illegal makes any logical sense. Otherwise, it seems to me that it's just an old hold-out from 'how we've always done it.'
 

Fluffywolf

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Yeah, where's the choice "Omnimoral". :D
 

olly_olly

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I'm sorry you guys but how do you change the choices? Or maybe use the idea to make a more in-depth thread? (or get an INTJ to help lol)
 

hilo

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I think we need to be careful with our definitions.

To the average person (say, and SJ type) ignoring societal rules and norms about behavior might be equivalent to amoral or immoral. But to an INTP (or perhaps any NTP) the question is not whether something is right within the confines of society (which we largely ignore in our internal workings) but whether it is right with the values we hold at our core.

That's the rub - we're all different inside, so what might be wrong to one is right to another. These are ultimately value judgements. What INTPs share is a desire for logical consistency in their beliefs.

What I find difficult for myself (and I suppose this is because of piss-poor Fi?) is knowing for certain what I actually do feel at core. One day I might think I care very much about every human on the planet and another, that I could care less about the majority of them. This ambiguity of feeling leads me to adopt a somewhat 'amoral' attitude of not caring to observe myself further because it's quite exhausting, and seems almost fruitless (there is no one right answer).

So I think the default is to take something more universal and external (say, the golden rule or maybe the basics of your particular brand of religion) and then "rationalize" things, to sort of create your own brand version thereof. I have seen this with a lot of other NTPs, the healthy ones (although I have known quite a few that were almost nihilistic as well).

What I would be curious to know about is whether other INTPs often find themselves in a situation of "honest hypocrisy" (i.e., acting against what one thinks is right for themselves and others but acknowledging it) due to societal pressures OR a tendency to place logic over feelings (which can lead to disconnects when your emotion overrides logic)?
 

goodgrief

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Amorality is not a trait of any particular trait. It is the trait of BEING A PSYCHOPATH.
 

Fluffywolf

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I think we need to be careful with our definitions.

To the average person (say, and SJ type) ignoring societal rules and norms about behavior might be equivalent to amoral or immoral. But to an INTP (or perhaps any NTP) the question is not whether something is right within the confines of society (which we largely ignore in our internal workings) but whether it is right with the values we hold at our core.

Exactly, I'd say this is 'omnimorality'. It's not actually a real word though, I think. I just made it up. :p

What I would be curious to know about is whether other INTPs often find themselves in a situation of "honest hypocrisy" (i.e., acting against what one thinks is right for themselves and others but acknowledging it) due to societal pressures OR a tendency to place logic over feelings (which can lead to disconnects when your emotion overrides logic)?

I have a tendency to play logic over feelings. That's the core. But I've also fell victim of hipocrisy in order to maintain and guide my 'societal life'. I wouldn't call it honest hipocrisy, because being honest about it (to others) would only negatively affect my attempts of 'fitting' into coorperate life. But in the sense that I recognize it for myself as hipocrisy, I'd say you could call it honesty.

Symbolically, I'm living three lives. One to fit into the life that has been paved before me. Another life to counteract the negativity of that life as a coping mechanism, a life that keeps me on a positive track, ultimatly benefitting every aspect of my life. And one life that is at the roots of it all, the life within my head, which only I have access too. :D
 

Totenkindly

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Amorality is not a trait of any particular trait. It is the trait of BEING A PSYCHOPATH.

Excuse me?

Is there any rational basis to what you've said that you care to explain? Or maybe some way you'd like to qualify your statement or define amorality to show how your definition differs from what is stated above, contextually?
 
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