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  1. #1
    Junior Member Keith's Avatar
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    Default INTP Enneagram Confusion

    Hello,

    I'm new to the enneagram stuff and am hoping for some clarification from some of you. I'm certainly an INTP with enneagram 5 sp, but I'm having some confusion about the wing. Does everyone have a wing? If so, is it just the number, of the two bordering your main number, with the higher score? If that is indeed the case, then I am a 5w6, but barely, because 6 and 4 are both close, and they are both actually at the bottom of the list (of my ranked enneagram types).

    What is really confusing me is that I've read descriptions here, and elsewhere, about 5w4 vs. 5w6 INTPs, and the common views don't seem to match with what I know about myself. Basically, I've read that 5w4s INTPs are perhaps closer to INFP while 5w6s might me closer to ISTJ. However, if that is the case, then I should be a 5w4, because I am really an INtP--my T is relatively weak while my N and P are quite pronounced. Also, it seems that most INTPs here are 5w4 (as evidenced by that zodiac thread), yet most seem even more scientific and detached than I am. If I am a 5w6, shouldn't it be the other way around?



    I would appreciate any insights you might have to offer on the topic! Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Note: All typology tests are to be taken as general recommendations for your own research into the archetypes, not as absolute indicators of your definite type.

    The best you can do is read more resources on the enneagram and try to figure out whether 5w6 or 5w4 is a better fit for you. The tests don't really mean much.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  3. #3
    Junior Member Keith's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Note: All typology tests are to be taken as general recommendations for your own research into the archetypes, not as absolute indicators of your definite type.

    The best you can do is read more resources on the enneagram and try to figure out whether 5w6 or 5w4 is a better fit for you. The tests don't really mean much.
    I'm hoping you all will be my resources.
    ...I haven't found many useful resources online and am not committed enough to this investigation to buy books on the subject.

    Also, I realize that the tests are not absolutely reliable, but I'm just surprised to receive a result that might be the opposite of what I would expect.

  4. #4
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    "Not absolutely reliable" is a bit of an understatement. The tests are quite frequently blatantly wrong.

    Anyway, though--I'm not that familiar with the enneagram. If I were you, I would ask blackcat. He knows more about it than most people here.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  5. #5
    Junior Member Keith's Avatar
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    Okay, I found the following in one of blackcat's posts, and, assuming its contents are reliable, I must be a 5w4:

    "5w4s are more fantastical and mythologize about how they aren't human. They are natural iconoclasts and disidentification is central to their self-image. Seeing things the normal way that everyone else does just seems "wrong" to them. They don't get as openly awed and apalled as their 5w6 siblings since worldly reality often pales in comparison to the reality of their internal experience. They are both more "cloaked" and also more emotionally immersing than 5w6s. They indulge in epic language to relive their feelings as anything less would seem too trite for the richness and significance of their internal experience. They tend to be less argumentative than 5w6s and would rather be convinced than convince others. They are more sociable and whimsical than 5w6s and want to show you there's more to them than meets the eye.

    The 5w4 inner landscape has a certain richness that's both a blessing and a curse. From being both in awe and terrified of just about everything they've contemplated their minds are anything but "normal" in the way they perceive things. They think they will always know more about others than others will ever know about them. They feel they are impossible to get to know and the most one can see is whatever persona they exhibit. Similar to core fours they transform this into their own brand of elitism.

    5w4s being iconoclasts force their way to the bottom of things to find meaning, safety with the known and familiar be damned. They have a "counter" mentality in how they focus on the undersides and opposites of things: "It was so dark it became light"..."that abhorrent yet fascinating person". Paradoxes, illusions, the twists and turns of fate, and unexplainable phenomena are representative of "something" that underlies and supercedes current reality and makes it richer. The unseen is more important than the seen. What is intangible matters more than what is tangible. What isn't obvious matters more than what is obvious. What is counterintuitive and fits is more aesthetic and elegant and therefore more significant than what is intuitive and fits. If the pieces fit when they shouldn't it's "anything but coincidental" and can be traced to something meaningful. When something is counterintuitive and makes sense it feels like a deep insight that was divinely revealed to them, a rare and special treasure that shows itself once in a blue moon. Something that's intuitive and makes sense is a dime a dozen that can only pale in comparison.

    5w4s tend to be more subjective than 5w6s. Their thinking process is less incremental and has more "illogical leaps". They search for that one angle of looking at things that magically makes everything make sense to them. They have a bias towards seeing underlying patterns that fit together aesthetically and elegantly as more real and therefore closer to the truth. They see a plethora of nonrandom things that just happen to line up towards a single conclusion as evidence of some "higher meaning" to support their conclusion, or even an indication of fate. Such a lining up of tells amidst random chaos couldn't be chance or random. There must be something there that isn't obvious but no less significant if not more so. This makes 5w4s more likely to see things that aren't there than miss things that are there. They tend to have occultic and esoteric areas of interest.


    5w6s see themselves as being fundamentally apart from others due to their oddness. They aspire to be one of society's foremost thinkers. They tend to be more awed at a world that never ceases to provide them with something to look into further. They are natural investigators who take the initiative to enthusiastically debate and discuss with others how they see the world. They tend to be more self-revealing and more emotionally detached than their 5w4 siblings. They have more of an uneasy truce with their emotions. On average they less sociable than 5w4s. While they also think there is more to them than meets the eye they feel more awkward about showing others this.

    The 5w6 inner landscape is one of limitless curiousity, arguably the most of the eighteen subtypes. They've thought a lot about the world and the nature of things with an unrivaled specificity. They've seemingly thought about everything at one point or another from the complex to the simple. They've looked further into things than most others. As a result they feel they have an understanding of the way things are in the world that others don't. Others haven't examined things to the extent that they have. They think most people don't understand them and aren't likely to put in the effort to do so.

    5w6 aesthetics are rooted in what is tangible and more easily seen due to their six wing. They envision being on the cutting edge of technological advancement as well as on the frontier of intellectual and physical realms. They contemplate exploring where few have gone before and witnessing worldly phenomena firsthand. They wonder what it's like to be inside the tiniest of probes observing life at the cellular level, or to be safely suspended in the fabric of space-time far away amidst black holes and other awesome anomalies of the cosmos. From these vantage points they are removed from the world of people yet tethered to the furthest reaches of the universe. Their sense of being in touch with these various frontiers beyond human experience has a highly intuitive and emotional aspect to it. There is a certain nirvana that's connected with understanding these worldly phenomena which also serves as an escape from reality. When they tap into that it feels empowering and feeds their tendency to think they have mastery over elements in the world. The more confident they are of their grasp of reality the more in control they feel and the easier it is to take action in the world without hesitation.

    5w6s tend to have more sequential and incremental streams of consciousness and lack the "illogical leaps" of 5w4s. There is a process of gradual solidification to their reasoning that makes them natural synthesizers of what they take into account. They tend to have a "one thing progresses to another" way of coming to a conclusion that's generally more precise and easier to follow. They have bias against solutions arrived at primarily aesthetically for not being objective enough. They prefer a thinking process that is more "valid" and can withstand more scrutiny. They are more likely to see a bunch of things that cluster as "coincidental" and not an indication of some higher meaning that they can't explain, unless they can tie things in the cluster together in some way. They tend to not believe in fate. Much of life is random and they accept that. They are more likely to miss things that are there than see things that aren't there like their 5w4s siblings. They tend to be more methodical and analytical and gravitate to more structured intellectual areas."

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