User Tag List

123 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 84

  1. #1
    Member eternal recurrence's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    MBTI
    iNfj
    Posts
    46

    Question The separation between emotion and rationality is a myth.

    I was reading this thread of 'what do you like about feelers' and one complaint is that there is a tendency to not be logical in arguments, make emotional appeals, or base their decisions on their emotions.

    So heres a question: Do you think its possible to actually step away/remove ourselves from 'emotions' when looking at an issue?

    This line: "I am being more rational than you" - may be an illusion for your rationality is just a set of learned ways of interacting that appear to lack emotion, HOWEVER! are not all decisions/arguments ultimately moral and emotional ones?

    TO put it in a strong way: I think people are fooling themselves if they think in life they are making 'clean' decisions, 'unemotional' arguments, or undertaking entire 'rational' courses of action.

  2. #2
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w7 sx/so
    Socionics
    N/A
    Posts
    1,200

    Default

    I agree that emotions are a permanent factor in discussion/decisions. However, I view emotions as the values that pushes me to think logically. In other words wherein in a game of soccer,though emotions are not the actual main players, they are the coach.

    Values and emotions are the energies and the reasons why I try to reason logically. I can't deny however that, pride, an emotion, has always been my problem. Nonetheless, in a positive manner, emotion itself has also lead me to my problem's indirect maintained balance.

    yet I do agree with "there is a tendency for feelers to not be logical in arguments, make emotional appeals, or base their decisions on their emotions as compared to thinkers." That is "tendency" not exclusive to thinkers but simply more dominant from my own observation alone. perhaps it requires reliable statistics...

  3. #3
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4
    Socionics
    INFp
    Posts
    3,403

    Default

    I tend to believe there is more to it than that, yet I do have similar views. That indeed emotional thoughts and rational thoughts come from the same source, same underlining expression just shaped, switched differently to manifest a more manageable language to express.

    If emotional thoughts and logical thoughts were different languages that were changed from an earlier mother language than that is how I see it. Two sides to the same coin branching out thinking and feeling in their separate yet common denominators. While you could say emotional thinkers make more feeling based appeals in their language which is a fair assay, it could be said that rational thinkers make more logical assessments in their discourse.

    Of course, if pinching a rational person didn't elicit a feeling response, a sensation of pain then ha. O_kay slightly different to emotions, if a human being is able to feel hot and cold, lukewarm. All manner of sensations from the nervous system that is given to us then I have to wonder. How much emotional investment is needed for rationally minded people in order to hold onto their core beliefs. And then to expend the amount of energy, the love of critical analysis, debate and thinking when expressing their values. The challenge of needing to be correct in their logical arguments, to corroborate in their own mind their logical understanding of subject matter. In much the same way emotional appeals are made from emotionally thinking people.

    Its almost like when it comes to a understanding emotions, through rational thoughts, the more that is written, the more you come to realise how emotionally invested a person gets in their passionate disapproval or approval of the feeling functions in favour of rational functions.

  4. #4
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    3,487

    Default

    no i don't, I think ultimately we as NT's attempt to create criteria on whihc we base decisions, I personally beleive it is bogus and that we are still to a degree making emo decisions. There is also a superiority within this

  5. #5
    Member eternal recurrence's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    MBTI
    iNfj
    Posts
    46

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Synapse View Post
    Its almost like when it comes to a understanding emotions, through rational thoughts, the more that is written, the more you come to realise how emotionally invested a person gets in their passionate disapproval or approval of the feeling functions in favour of rational functions.
    ya...exactly.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Posts
    473

    Default

    ive been trying to tell u ppl this for a long ass time. the same cognitive facility is used to dictate whether a feeling or a thought is right or wrong. there is no such thing as human rationality, but you can have an emotional sensitivity towards logical ends like math and science. some people are neurochemically tuned with structure while others are more in tune with fluid concepts like emotion and social dynamics.

  7. #7
    A passer by yvonne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    MBTI
    INfP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    564

    Default

    yes, i think this is true. in my experience, it has been valuable for me to first value emotions and then try to understand what they are telling me and how they are affecting me. if you totally dismiss them, you are fooling yourself and actually can damage your decision making process. if you open your mind to the world of emotions and learn to use them in a controlled manner to our collective advantage, you are taking a step forward, imo.

    we are wired differently and there's nothing wrong about that, though, but i think it would be to everyone's advantage to meet somewhere half way... and i think most of us already do.

  8. #8
    Member eternal recurrence's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    MBTI
    iNfj
    Posts
    46

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyNoLimits View Post
    the same cognitive facility is used to dictate whether a feeling or a thought is right or wrong. there is no such thing as human rationality, but you can have an emotional sensitivity towards logical ends like math and science. some people are neurochemically tuned with structure while others are more in tune with fluid concepts like emotion and social dynamics.
    I love this idea - "an emotional sensitivity towards math". It makes me think of the guy who could feel numbers (e.g. nine was associated with a certain emotion). Daniel Tammet from the doc. "The Boy With The Incredible Brain".

    But my actual interest is in the implications of this. If rationality, as we speak about it, or imagine it to function (e.g. as non-emotion), is an illusion...then what?

    For instance, I think we could take any scientific research and find a moral basis for it although this starting point is not discussed. Just like in conversation where someone makes a claim as if it is self-evident or does not represent a value/as if it is non-emotional. Yes yes yes - there are facts and values - I'm talking about the impetus for (and our interaction within) a conversation or a programme... how we think about what impels our words or actions. Ya and im conflating morals and emotions but is that a problem?

    I'm gonna be pulled off stage by a cane soon I know it.

  9. #9
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    8w9
    Posts
    9,745

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyNoLimits View Post
    ive been trying to tell u ppl this for a long ass time. the same cognitive facility is used to dictate whether a feeling or a thought is right or wrong. there is no such thing as human rationality, but you can have an emotional sensitivity towards logical ends like math and science. some people are neurochemically tuned with structure while others are more in tune with fluid concepts like emotion and social dynamics.
    This. Thank you.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  10. #10
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    4,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eternal recurrence View Post
    I love this idea - "an emotional sensitivity towards math". It makes me think of the guy who could feel numbers (e.g. nine was associated with a certain emotion). Daniel Tammet from the doc. "The Boy With The Incredible Brain".
    Bra-ket notation makes me feel distinctly emotive-I find the symbolism and ability to redefine entire symbolic universes via a few math functions utterly enchantingly euphoric. I also feel an emotive response to any complex symbolic representation. Protein structures, simulated annealing, any complex math equation. There is magic in them-there letters....

    I suck at emo on people. But all of my organizational choices that seem very Te centric-very logical-they have an Fi component. I will make a logical choice about which part to purchase for an instrument-and subconciously be computing how and where it will impact segments of the entire organization. Fi/Te is doing on-the-fly calculations to find the most optimal solution based in logistics and finances-with the least negative impact on the people. Typically this final choice is the most practical if not obviously logical-if you negatively impact people, they will fuck up your plans-so best to keep em happy if you can.

    My ENTP and I balance one another here as she will say fuck the people, fix the system. She can identify the system breaks, I can identify the people breaks.

Similar Threads

  1. What is the difference between INTP and INTJ?
    By Triglav in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 10-26-2009, 03:25 PM
  2. What exactly is the difference between Ti and Ni, Si and Fi, and others?
    By Triglav in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 10-14-2009, 11:28 AM
  3. Replies: 18
    Last Post: 05-14-2009, 10:42 AM
  4. [ENFJ] What is the difference between ENTJ and ENFJ?
    By yenom in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 03-28-2009, 07:24 PM
  5. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-26-2008, 08:11 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO