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  1. #71
    A passer by yvonne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Notice that the judging function in these examples has nothing to do with the conclusions (pro or con w/r to abortion rights) one derives. Also notice that while Fe and Fi would make "moral" decisions (possibly based on some degree of emotion or feeling), Te and Ti are using nothing resembling morality or emotion. "T" has priorities and preferences, yes, and some of these are likely emotionally (or maybe even morally) based, but the actual processing isn't emotional or moral, but more about "does it make sense?" or "does it work?"
    yeah, you gave a good explanation... but how is it possible that i have thought about this example issue from every angle you described, if according to my type i use primarily Fi and Te... i just can't simplify it like this...
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  2. #72
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yvonne View Post
    yeah, you gave a good explanation... but how is it possible that i have thought about this example issue from every angle you described, if according to my type i use primarily Fi and Te... i just can't simplify it like this...
    He's talking about making the actual decision not just deliberating. When it comes time to the decision making, which aspect holds greater weight...

  3. #73
    A passer by yvonne's Avatar
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    yes, i thought that was it, too. i think i might make the decision based on the circumstances, or something...

    also... what i said about the arguing... i might sometimes say something specifically to make someone feel better. i think that's important in itself. it means i recognize the emotion, i recognize the good and i want to "feed" the good. i think that's building trust. i can only trust people who make the effort to see good in me and try to relate to my feelings. i can take criticism much better from people i trust than those i don't.

    obviously, i make mistakes, also.
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  4. #74
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yvonne View Post
    yeah, you gave a good explanation... but how is it possible that i have thought about this example issue from every angle you described, if according to my type i use primarily Fi and Te... i just can't simplify it like this...
    If you think about it, *I* have also thought about it from every single angle, yet I'm clear about my type and what functions I use. Personally, I would be dissatisfied with any law that does not meet my T-style requirements. The moral considerations are also important, and would be used to choose between acceptable, workable alternatives.

    Forced to choice between options that I regard as "moral, but really stupid and unworkable" and "amoral or immoral, but effective and logical," I will tend to choose the latter. That said, if "moral but stupid" becomes the law of the land, I would argue for "moral and effective", and if "amoral but effective" becomes the law of the land, I would argue for "moral and effective". Just because I'm "T" doesn't mean I don't take morality into account, but rather that it is a secondary concern, not a primary one.

    Note that all of the above isn't explicit about particular morals: some morality (e.g., do not kill) carries a lot of weight even for those with a strong T, and some logistical concerns (e.g., there isn't enough money to accomplish the moral task even on a limited scale) carry a lot of weight even for those with a strong F.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  5. #75
    A passer by yvonne's Avatar
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    ^ yes, i know you have. balance is where it's at for me.
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  6. #76
    A passer by yvonne's Avatar
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    i had to find this old thread just because i have noticed that i did instill emotional motivation to the communication of thinkers when it was not there. (so there i think i understand the frustration... ) :P

    now where's the victory dance?
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  7. #77
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    As a newbie I was interested to peruse this resuscitated thread. I agree with those who made the distinction between emotion and values when speaking of feeling. In MBTI, feeling refers more to values than to emotion, and values enter every decision one makes. Someone gave the example of verifying facts as an entirely objective activity. Perhaps the verification process is entirely objective, but why was the person doing it to begin with, and why were those particular facts worth verifying? The answer to these questions rests upon what the person considers important, worthwhile, necessary, all of which is informed by his/her values.

    Why do we have the values we have? One might argue that they have been chosen through some rational process. Perhaps (in fact I hope) they have, but this process will in turn have been motivated by even more deeply seated values.

    Rationality thus applies mainly to the decision making process, and afterwards, to the implementation of our decision. Both values and emotions serve as inputs to this process, as do facts, opinions, and other data. Perhaps feelers are more likely to rely on emotional (subjective) data, while thinkers are more likely to rely on factual (objective) data.

  8. #78
    A passer by yvonne's Avatar
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    yes, i don't know. perhaps feelers are more likely to, for example, give someone a second... a third... chance, even if when thinking about it rationally, it would be unlikely to end well. we want to be positive, not realistic.
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  9. #79
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    For me personally, emotion and rationality exist in parallel. I have them both but logic is the dominating factor for me. I am often accused of being robotic which isn't entirely accurate. I do have emotions like anybody else, I just typically don't react with them. Often in tragic or otherwise emotionally charged situations I have no emotional response and people often accuse me of being cold, when in reality I am really feeling things quite deeply as much as they are, but when it comes to my reaction to the situation I will analyze and then react accordingly. If I can change the course of the situation towards something more positive I will, but if I can't then I will resign myself to that fact and do nothing. Not because I don't care, but because my actions will not produce a different outcome.

  10. #80
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yvonne View Post
    yes, i don't know. perhaps feelers are more likely to, for example, give someone a second... a third... chance, even if when thinking about it rationally, it would be unlikely to end well. we want to be positive, not realistic.
    In your example, the feeler gives priority to the subjective evidence: the person seems like he is trying, he didn't mean it, he deserves a break. The thinker will give priority to objective evidence: the specific harm caused by whatever the person did, past track record with the same or similar people, etc. Both are in fact utilizing a rational decision making process, they are simply weighing the evidence based upon their differing personal value systems.

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