[MBTI General] Cognitive Styles

[dbbag85]

I dont believe types are as rigid as alot of people think. Cognitive styles has a type called Contributor. Who is usually the oldest child, or the one parents put the pressure on to go far. Contributors can be ENTJ, ESTJ, ESTP, INTJ, ISTP, ISTJ, and they usually emphasize either Se or Te. Its like a loop the brain uses. The theory says as you become aware and learn your brain kind of unlocks and you will not identify with an mbti type less as much as one of the cognitive styles. I understand this completely because i can tell when my thinking changes. This is either gonna sound like genius or madness. For instance Im a young man, life is not easy what happens when times are hard is I choose to go into loner mode and start planning alot, and become very singleminded. Then I start testing mbti as INTJ or ENTJ. And quite the opposite when things are going well, I tend to test ESTJ, sometimes ENTJ. I think its possible to be aware of different types or how to utilize them in each of us.

 

[dbbag85]

All Sorts of People - Ordered Complexity
check the tests out, you can also read the book in pdf format. Its a tough read, I'd start in the type descriptions.

It really takes a giant leap forward on Jungs work

Read it and then go live life, dont get sucked in, life is too short.

 

[FDG]

So you test ENTJ both when things are going well and when they're turning awry. Sounds simpler than what you make it to be.

 

[dbbag85]

No, interesting point, although I mistyped, ENTJ is usually when things are going shitty.

I bet theres more people that have run into this.
Cognitive styles says you should test different stuff according to type

 

[Totenkindly]

No, It doesn't make any kind of sense to test ESTJ for 6 months and then to start testing INTJ and ENTJ for another period of time. What if you need to be an ENTJ at some point in your life? And then things chill out and you relax into ESTJ. That makes a hell of alot more sense to me. Maybe the human mind is more dynamic then they think.

Usually in those cases we get better granulation with cognitive theory, not wholesale changing of types... because maybe the type isn't changing, what you're doing is developing skill/competence in non-preference areas.

 

[Salt n' pepper]

Usually in those cases we get better granulation with cognitive theory, not wholesale changing of types... because maybe the type isn't changing, what you're doing is developing skill/competence in non-preference areas.

That's what I'm thinking, too.

But seriously. ENTJs are more chill than ESTJs. Just sayin

 

[Totenkindly]

BTW, I just looked at the PDF of the book and it's very much like a Christian book by Katie Fortune published in 1987, interestingly enough... where she determined seven types from the list of spiritual gifts found in the Bible NT:

Perceiver
Exhorter
Giver
Server
Teacher
Administrator
Compassionate

This book seems to have the following types:

Perceiver
Exhorter
Contributor
Server
Teacher
Facilitator
Mercy

Hmmm....

 

[Jaguar]

BTW, I just looked at the PDF of the book and it's very much like a Christian book by Katie Fortune published in 1987, interestingly enough... where she determined seven types from the list of spiritual gifts found in the Bible NT:

Perceiver
Exhorter
Giver
Server
Teacher
Administrator
Compassionate

This book seems to have the following types:

Perceiver
Exhorter
Contributor
Server
Teacher
Facilitator
Mercy

Hmmm....

Revolutionary.

 

[dbbag85]

Read it and then weigh in. I have no idea about the type names correlation although I think thats pretty irrelevant considering cognitive styles is not bible based in the least.

 

[dbbag85]

Cognition_Expo :: View topic - Neuroanatomy and Cognitive Styles

heres some interesting info

 

[Totenkindly]

Read it and then weigh in. I have no idea about the type names correlation although I think thats pretty irrelevant considering cognitive styles is not bible based in the least.

These are.

It might be useful to conjure up roles that MBTI types can plug into like costumes, they just won't be comprehensive as a fully mapped theory... especially if they were cribbed at some point off Katie's list.

(I mean, come on... who in the world uses the term "exhorter" nowadays, with so many other words to choose from? That's pretty much a NT bible word, and it's what triggered my recollection of the other book.)

 

[Totenkindly]

I said, "you mean"?

The thread's open.
People are free to say what they want.

I'll raise my issues with your ideas, just as I've raised issues with Jung and MBTI that I've had, thnx. *shrug*

And yeah, I have the same sort of "brain mapping" problems with this (as per your newest link) as I do with Thomson's MBTI cognitive function map to brain quadrants.

 

[dbbag85]

Well than I'd like you to point me to some further information on Jungs theories and brain maps because at this point CS seems 10x more complete and scientific

 

[Totenkindly]

Well than I'd like you to point me to some further information on Jungs theories and brain maps because at this point CS seems 10x more complete and scientific

Why are you asking me?

I said above that I do not agree with the only set of Jung-ish brain maps that I've seen (Thomson's). So I'm obviously not saying Jung is any better, am I, or that I'm a supporter of Jung? (And besides, MBTI is not exactly Jung, is it?)

The whole concept of being able to map a complex skein of behavior like "Mercy" to a particular section of the brain enough to make a personality theory out of it seems crazy to me... just like Thomson's attempt to say a particular area of the brain is specifically responsible for (example) the Fe cognitive function.

The benefit of a doubt would be on you, not me, to explain why this should be accepted as true.... at least more than, "Well, this seems to me ten times more likely to be true!" That's not really an argument.

Why DO you think it ten times more likely to be true?
Why do you think Contributors map to a particular brain area, and Perceivers map elsewhere, and that this mapping is exact and specific and exclusive?

So far you've just posted a few comments out of books without explaining why it's true.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

I dont believe types are as rigid as alot of people think. Cognitive styles has a type called Contributor. Who is usually the oldest child, or the one parents put the pressure on to go far. Contributors can be ENTJ, ESTJ, ESTP, INTJ, ISTP, ISTJ, and they usually emphasize either Se or Te. Its like a loop the brain uses. The theory says as you become aware and learn your brain kind of unlocks and you will not identify with an mbti type less as much as one of the cognitive styles. I understand this completely because i can tell when my thinking changes. This is either gonna sound like genius or madness. For instance Im a young man, life is not easy what happens when times are hard is I choose to go into loner mode and start planning alot, and become very singleminded. Then I start testing mbti as INTJ or ENTJ. And quite the opposite when things are going well, I tend to test ESTJ, sometimes ENTJ. I think its possible to be aware of different types or how to utilize them in each of us.

So, it looks like another type of personality paradigm. Like the enneagram.

If you mostly identify with ENTJ, (and INTJ), you must be pretty Te/Ni. If you seem ESTJ, that simply means you probably can perceive with Si as well as Ni, yet you still rely on Te for your main judging function.

Te/Ni
Te/Si

No biggie. I think MBTI still probably has the ability to describe this more clearly than your link, even though funtion theories are still pretty limited thus far.

 

[Ishida]

I guess this is necroposting, but I did a google search and found this. I made a post on INTJ forum about this theory. I've read a bit of it and discussed it with a couple friends, and even wrote a little "intro" of what I gleaned from it.

LINK: 1500 Collegiate Words & 900 pre-TOEFL Words with Readings, Exercises and Audio

The site has a personality test (it's not the greatest) and a free e-book if you want to jump right in. Honestly this won't get very far unless we dig into the data. I and an ENTP friend jumped right in and we adapted quickly and had a lot of fun playing with the ideas.

It's a theory developed by Lane Friesien which sort of meshes the cognitive functions and MBTI, but comes out with 7 distinct "Styles"

I'll list the styles and some traits for people to chew on, with corresponding function and what MBTI types will usually be those styles.

Mercy (Introverted Feeling ) Almost always an F type.
-Loyal, hates hypocrisy and "fakeness"
-Tend to often second guess what they say and do. Often ponders "What if I did this differently?" Often extends into their humor.
- If you accuse them to their face, they don't do well. Even if they're justified.
-They're more sensitive/knowledgeable to body language and unspoken rules.
-Basic feeler stuff, they're sympathetic/empathic.
- Need to get and give <3.

Note: These guys have a dark side. If they're constantly rejected, and they're forced to suppress their emotions they will become bitter and kind of a jerk. It's like conforming yet not conforming at the same time. Their emotions do not disappear, and it drives them nuts. Males can often be subjected to this, since mercy traits aren't really "masculine"

Exhorter (Extroverted Intuition and Feeling) Always extroverts.

-They're pretty animated in their movements and expressions. Their face moves a lot when talking. And they LOVE to talk.
- Don't care for details and "red tape", and often START the big projects, but don't finish them and/or leave things out. (Intentionally or not)
- They can handle abstract conversation, and can even like it, but they don't like when it gets too abstract.
- When they get interested/enthusiastic about things, it's full throttle. It'll draw in others too. But it can change. This is why they're suited to salesmanship.
- Loud, bubbly, happy. They certainly can have their "explosions" though.
- Did I mention they love to talk?

Note: O HAI ENFP person I know!


Servers (Introverted Sensing) Always Sensors
-Tend to be emotionally stable, comfortable in their own skin.
-Learn by doing or watching others do, will often keep doing it the way it was taught.
-Don't take moving very well.
-They keep their reading practical.
-Things have their "place" and it is not to be disturbed. I guess this extends to messiness too. It probably won't be tolerated.
- Tend to not stand out, including in history. They typically don't rise to fame.
-Good with their hands.
- Likes to do things on their own terms, but is a team player.
-Step by step. A to B to C.
- Don't really care for humor. (Not too sure on this one)
(My friend added this one)
- Learning for learning's sake is retarded, if you can't use the knowledge, there is no point in their eyes.

Note: This is like ISFJ embodied, right? You'll know you're a perciever if this sounds totally unappealing.

Perciever (Introverted Thinking) Almost always a T type, and N types also tend towards this.
- Loyal, hates hypocrisy and especially inconsistency/fakeness.
- Extending from that, if inconsistency continues, they will cease to see you as a person. Even if they disagree with you, being consistent about it will earn you their respect.
- Big picture oriented, to the point where they need it to evaluate ideas. They like to know the whys and how it all connects.
- Free associates ideas, finds connections whether between words or ideas, sometimes at random they will discover strong or even beautiful connections and it'll be like "AHA!"
- Looks for contradictions first, often sees flaws in other people's plans and will point them out. May piss people off but it's natural for them.
- Strongly believes what they believe, and it is not affected by peer pressure. In this way they are pretty independent.
- Revels in irony and sarcasm.


Note: I think the population here would mostly fit under this banner. We're often misunderstood, and tend to be packrats. xD


Teacher (Introverted Intuition) Always an N type. Also pretty rare.
- They're minimalistic. They don't really go for what they don't need. Though sometimes may even forget what they need.
- Their understanding is a part of them. Attack their understanding and you attack them. They see through it and if they cannot explain something through it, they'll get confused.
- Their knowledge base is one collective whole, they don't separate it and use it as a frame of reference..for a lot.
- Can single-mindedly concentrate on one thing until they get burned out. And even then won't care to publish it.
- Can abandon traditional thinking and build on anything.
- "Intellectual loners"
- Works with details and general principles, and can often confuse themselves with it.
- They have a terrible memory when it comes to past experience.

Note: This style is rather emotional, as their understanding is such a big part of them. While I can't be sure of this, I think if any style is more likely to be asexual, it's this one. Also, INTJs dominant is Ni so there will probably be some overlap no matter which style you use. Albert Einstein and Issac Newton are clear historical examples of this style.

Contributor (Extroverted Thinking and Sensing) This type tends toward S, and many different types can be this, including INTJs.
- Hates having to earn approval.
- Has a vivid imagination.
- Often unstable emotionally, gets worth from outside sources and is probably the easiest to hypnotize.
- Likes to read mystery novels.
- They are numerous, and they can appear as percievers, mercies, or servers.
- Like practical jokes.
- Don't like to do what they're not good at. Will not battle someone who is an expert outside of their field.
-Strong sense of ownership.
-Enjoys having guests over, being hospitable.
- Doesn't mind buying huge things, but is rather cheap and will try to find cheap parking or get things on sale.
-They are keen on detecting the social "pecking order" and will try to get into it, and do not like to apologize.
(There is a ton more...)

Note: Chances are the "fakeness" that pisses percievers off so much will come from these types trying to climb the social ladder. You really need to dig deeper to better understand this type, as there are probably some INTJ's here who fit it. Chances are if you feel threatened when someone accuses you of "S" ness, you might want to look into it.


Facilitator (Unknown) This one can be just about any type, save INTJ and possibly one more.
- Can always express how they feel at any given time.
- Can interact for long periods of time with anyone, even if they detest that person.
- Can detach themselves fully from things to observe, even if what's going on isn't all that objective.
- Artistically inclined.
- Eclectic in their interests, will often try their hand at many different things. (Contrast with teacher)
- They pay a ton of attention to details. (Probably ties into the being good at art.)
- They're fixated on uncertainty.. and.. well, most philosophers (95% in the book) are facilitators.
- Adapts well.

Note: This one is the one I have the hardest time with.. maybe you all will make better of it. But a friend well versed in this noted that J and P facilitators differ greatly.

 

[Jaguar]

So, we basically have someone who thinks changing labels on pre-existing frameworks is "innovative."
Oh, be still my beating heart.

 

[Such Irony]

I guess this is necroposting, but I did a google search and found this. I made a post on INTJ forum about this theory. I've read a bit of it and discussed it with a couple friends, and even wrote a little "intro" of what I gleaned from it.

I'm one of those rare teacher types.

 

[mentalsymmetry]

The source of Perceiver, Server, etc.

Hi:

Yes, we got the system of seven styles from the same source as Katie Fortune. But, the only thing in common between us and her is seven names and a list of traits. She teaches it at that level and the last I checked has not taken any further.

We, on the other hand, have expanded into psychology, neurology, history, etc.

As a Perceiver person, my main concern is not with who came up with an idea but rather whether it makes sense or not.

Cheers,

Lorin Friesen

BTW, I just put up a website on the subject: Mental Symmetry Home

BTW, I just looked at the PDF of the book and it's very much like a Christian book by Katie Fortune published in 1987, interestingly enough... where she determined seven types from the list of spiritual gifts found in the Bible NT:

Perceiver
Exhorter
Giver
Server
Teacher
Administrator
Compassionate

 

[sulfit]

I could never make much sense of Friesen's cognitive styles and how they relate to MBTI type. I do like socionics cognitive styles for different types.