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  1. #21
    Member Jwill's Avatar
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    My logical decisions come from my existing knowledge. I may not know everything about the topic at hand, but if I know, maybe half of the puzzle, I use my intuition to fill in the rest. The solution has to make sense.

    For example, right now, my community is talking about closing one of our elementary schools to save money. The community council has stressed that everyone remain logical and unemotional in their arguments about which school to close. The school board made up three criteria for closing a school. They use ONLY those criteria for closing a school and call themselves logical and unemotional. As a very rational person, it was obvious to me that the members of the school board were anything but logical. As an INTJ, I think the more information you have, the better logical decision you can make. One of the school board's criteria for closing a school is the age of the school. They want to close the oldest school in the district--without considering other factors concerning building quality. The school in the cross hairs is well-built, but old. One other school has crumbling foundations. Another school has a leaky roof with fungus. But the criteria for closing a school only takes age into consideration. How is that logical?

    I think it's logical to make informed decisions. You should try to be objective and unemotional about it, and you should have as much information as possible. As an INTJ, I sometimes skip past gathering all of the information I can because of my strong Ni. It's too easy for me to fill in the gaps. But I still believe that being informed is essential. Looking at all sides of the issue is also important to me. I love brainstorming solutions, and I can come up with several alternatives quickly. If you have difficulty making logical decisions, try making a list of pros and cons. I almost never do that. I just KNOW the logical solution like some people KNOW that their spouse is their soul mate or that god is real. But it's a good place to start that isn't overwhelming if you have trouble making logical decisions.

    As for emotion, I think it can be very important to decision-making, especially when the decision is emotion-based. Emotions can be just another consideration in your decision. I had to decide where to go for grad school. I looked at cost, level of prestige, field of study, and location. All of those considerations were important, but an emotional consideration kept me from moving too far from my family. That doesn't mean that my decision wasn't logical. It was logical for me--and for my personality type. So yes, I think emotion can be an important consideration. I just don't think it should be the only consideration. If, say, you were in an abusive relationship, the emotional decision might be to stay with your partner because you love them. The logical decision would be to get out of the situation no matter how hurt you may feel--emotionally--because of it.

    Anyway, to sum up, I think logical thought process for me means being as informed as possible and knowing what you're getting into even if it is a decision influenced by emotion.

  2. #22
    figsfiggyfigs
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    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    there's a piece missing here

    does this fit? no, but the answer is probably related...

    does this fit? no, but I feel I'm on the right track...

    what if I moved this piece over here...hmm, not a very elegant solution...

    what if I switch these two p- no, that's just stupid...

    does this fit? no...

    does this fit? kind of!

    does it fit with this? no...

    wait!



    IT FITSSSSSSSSS



    ...

    there's a piece missing here...


    same...

  3. #23
    Pose! Salt n' pepper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by You'reWrongI'mRight View Post
    same...
    Now you're just being lazy.

  4. #24
    Pumpernickel
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    Uhh... well shit just happens in my brain and then I go "this is what I'm going to do and stuff"

  5. #25
    Pose! Salt n' pepper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustHer View Post
    Uhh... well shit just happens in my brain and then I go "this is what I'm going to do and stuff"
    This is what I relate to most. It's all happening very, very fast and simultaneously. Like a ninja-star.

    And, for me, it's more about constantly weighing the pros and cons. Going throught the consequences of each possible outcome, and weighing these - and BAM my desicion is made. My brain is like a huge scale. HUUUUUGE!



    If you have time to reflect over your thought process, you're thinking too slow!

  6. #26
    figsfiggyfigs
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salt n' pepper View Post
    Now you're just being lazy.
    oorrrrr.....efficient... LOL

    *coughs*

    *wow, totally realized that his last sentence says ..

    there's a piece missing here...*

    which is never the case!!!!

    -___- i need to stop commenting in a rush

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermeticdancer View Post
    I want to understand how the individual logic process works, NT types. What are the processes you go to think things through, are you contious of them? How do I become a more developed thinker? What is the value in this over feeling do you think? Does anyone not value emotion as much as thinking? What does it mean anyway to have thinking over feeling, and do you think it is better? Can you make value judgments, with reason?
    Thinking is about resource allocation. If you want to develop thought, the first question is, what kind of thought? Take chess for example. There are some chess players who are very fast, but not very deep; others deep, but not fast. In the former case, one may see three moves deep at a snapshot, but lack the discipline of intensive focus to see deeper; in the latter case, there are others who can see 20 moves deep, but take more time to calculate. Some of the more talented masters can see both fast and deep, but usually where differences exist trade-offs are at stake and one must decide where resources are concentrated most productively given one's goals.

    For example, I recently took a test for a certain license. I studied a textbook for a day and scored 100 percent on the written test. While I was doing the practical test the written test administrator told my dad, who was standing by, that I scored 100 percent, but was the longest person to have taken the test. Now, it is true that I took my time and certainly my first question to the administrator was whether the test was timed or not. It wasn't, and I thought I could use this to my advantage. Why? I do not think that one either knows an answer or doesn't and that is the final word. On the contrary, I think that some problems can be solved on the spot through logical thinking and by putting the pieces of the puzzle together. For example, multiple choice question 75 may give one a clue to solving true and false question 11, if one doesn't already know. On that note, hermeticdancer will need to decide what sort of thinking she is after. In the meantime, logic, mathematics, music, and very deep contemplation tend to conduce to the enrichment of thought.

  8. #28
    Senior Member hermeticdancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Provoker View Post
    Thinking is about resource allocation. If you want to develop thought, the first question is, what kind of thought? Take chess for example. There are some chess players who are very fast, but not very deep; others deep, but not fast. In the former case, one may see three moves deep at a snapshot, but lack the discipline of intensive focus to see deeper; in the latter case, there are others who can see 20 moves deep, but take more time to calculate. Some of the more talented masters can see both fast and deep, but usually where differences exist trade-offs are at stake and one must decide where resources are concentrated most productively given one's goals.

    For example, I recently took a test for a certain license. I studied a textbook for a day and scored 100 percent on the written test. While I was doing the practical test the written test administrator told my dad, who was standing by, that I scored 100 percent, but was the longest person to have taken the test. Now, it is true that I took my time and certainly my first question to the administrator was whether the test was timed or not. It wasn't, and I thought I could use this to my advantage. Why? I do not think that one either knows an answer or doesn't and that is the final word. On the contrary, I think that some problems can be solved on the spot through logical thinking and by putting the pieces of the puzzle together. For example, multiple choice question 75 may give one a clue to solving true and false question 11, if one doesn't already know. On that note, hermeticdancer will need to decide what sort of thinking she is after. In the meantime, logic, mathematics, music, and very deep contemplation tend to conduce to the enrichment of thought.
    You seem deep...

  9. #29
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermeticdancer View Post
    I want to understand how the individual logic process works, NT types. What are the processes you go to think things through, are you contious of them?
    Generally I think in terms of an internal monologue; a continuous stream of consciousness where I reflect on my surroundings, my plans, opinions, analysis on any given situation (and I spend a lot of time analyzing), etc.

    How do I become a more developed thinker?
    Question everything. Something happens, why did it happen? How did it happen? How does it affect me, and how can I use that information? And so on.

    What is the value in this over feeling do you think?
    There's great value in sympathy, but subjectivity is dangerous, because it completely ignores real-world cause and consequence, and unintended effects. In a nuts-and-bolts setting, if you can't think objectively you can make yourself and other people worse off without meaning to.

    Can you make value judgments, with reason?
    You can't, which is why NTs tend to discard value judgments offhand. NTPs completely disregard the rules, whereas NTJs are driven to make rules -- but not to follow them.
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