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  1. #31
    Member Hypomanic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    Si is the function that create a single, detailed, comprehensive, measured world view. Ni is multifaceted. There are strengths and weaknesses to both approaches. These produce different debate styles, although I can see how a single instance could produce a similar appearance of style.
    Could you show me your sources? That's interesting.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Veneti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    If you look at the functions over the letters it sheds a different light. Ni is about viewing issues from every perspective. I think people assume the INTJ thinks they are "right" when they are merely testing one position for its full potential. The problem is other people fold or make quick assumptions that this is some sort of conclusion. Also an INTJ is less likely to propose a viewpoint without some background analysis and insight. When encountering someone who has not taken the time to do this, that person may respond with "the INTJ thinks they are right" only because they were unable to refute the position. It is entirely possible the INTJ could and would refute their own position. Just a thought to consider.
    Absolutely right.

    People need to understand that’s there's a whole range of intelligence(s) between different INTJs. Bright ones and thick(ish) ones.

    Sometimes we argue a point just to see if the other person is smart enough to actually pull the argument towards the actual right answer. Sometimes we know there's a huge hole in the argument we put forward and we smile when the other person is actually smart enough to jump through it (being so called "wrong" sometimes is great...).

    Believe it or not, sometimes we'll just pick arguments to give our brains a work out.. Think of it like walking the dog.

    In terms of arguing or even putting forward a theory.. People should realise that these are put forward to extract further information and or glean some new angles on the topic... if we are doing that, then there's a whole heap of prior knowledge behind it.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Veneti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    INTJs think like dams. They build up all this knowledge behind a wall of what they believe is logic and objective insight, but they can't allow any doubt to creep in, otherwise little cracks would form and it could all come crashing through. They tend to be annoying because they only collect or believe information that supports the way they see the world.
    Interestingly, I think of it like building frameworks of connected knowledge... and yes, sometimes some INTJs will not allow any doubt to creep in... but those that do.. just let the dam burst and build a better one.

    As an example, as a kid I used to use conflict as a motivating force.. but as I grew up the whole thing had to change so I moved to a more "team" approach (as its sustainable in the longer run and can leverage more). And the process of change was a huge reconstruction and exploration of my subconcious actions and ways of thinking/acting etc etc.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Veneti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypomanic View Post
    Could you show me your sources? That's interesting.

    To me, Si is the direct observation of the "object", Ni is more of an observation by reflection on the "object".

  5. #35
    Senior Member Gabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    Part frustration with the way they cling to their philosophies, part jealousy because they're so fucking focused and capable.
    Really. Because a theorist in the wrong situation can seem very incompetent. (I'd just like to put that out there to blow this whole 'larger than life' perception away)

  6. #36
    Senior Member Gabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    INTJs think like dams. They build up all this knowledge behind a wall of what they believe is logic and objective insight, but they can't allow any doubt to creep in, otherwise little cracks would form and it could all come crashing through. They tend to be annoying because they only collect or believe information that supports the way they see the world.

    For example, here is a simplified INTJ conversation....

    INTJ: The number of car accidents in this state has gone up this year and I blame drunk driving.
    INFJ: Ok, but there isn't any evidence to show that there are more drunk driving related accidents in the state so there could be other causes.
    INTJ: Drunk driving is responsible for most accidents in this country.
    INFJ: Ok, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the upward trend in this case is due to more drunk driving.
    INTJ: Are you saying that there wouldn't be fewer accidents if there were fewer drunk drivers?
    INFJ: That is beside the point, you are suggesting that there are more accidents in this state because of drunk driving, despite not having any evidence that there are more drunk driving related accidents.
    INTJ: Last year, 76% of accidents were caused by drunk drivers in this state. I would say that is evidence this state has a drunk driving problem.
    INFJ: Yes, the state has a problem, but that doesn't mean that the recent rise in accidents were due to drunk drivers.

    Do you see the pattern? The INFJ keeps suggesting something is wrong with the INTJ's argument. But the INTJ, rather than address the flaw in his thinking, continues to build an argument for why he believes drunk driving is responsible for the rise in accidents. This is typically the pattern of most conversations I have had with INTJs.
    Well I haven't met any who were like that.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Gabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    But as you know being an F doesn't mean your feelings are more or less intense. Of all the people I know, the Fs freeze the best. The Ts lack the fine manipulation and just shut off Fs continue to give emotion but it's all cold.
    Now I CAN actually admit to that one.

  8. #38
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe View Post
    Well I haven't met any who were like that.
    INTJ Central

  9. #39
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ps646566 View Post
    INTJ's tends to be blunt and to the point -- there is nothing that many people like less than being confronted with the uncomfortable or inconvenient truth.
    That seems somewhat idealistic to me. One INTJ loves being all that - unconfortable, inconvenient and telling the truth - but he does it at the cost of missing the point. It almost seems like a purpose in itself for him. Well, that's him only half the time.

  10. #40
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    Why do people have negative views about INTJ's? Simply because people use two fundamental dimensions when evaluating others: comptence and warmth. Any person who is perceived as high in one will be automatically perceived as less high in the other as a form of compensation. We tend to like warm people, however we tend to envy competent people. We want competence for ourselves and warmth in others.

    ESFP's are perceived as the ultimate warm types. They are pleasant to be around and are do not destabilize you in your world views. INTJ's, on the other hand, are the ultimate competent types. They tend to put others ill at ease and challenge their thinking.

    I think many people envy INTJ's. They like their competence and would want it for them. They also see INTJ's as competitive and threatening compared to, say, ESFP's.

    Of course, as an ENTJ, I tend to really enjoy the company of INTJ's and find myself at ease with them. For example, I find myself feeling very much in peace and in harmony when surfing on INTJcentral. I resonate alot with the people there. My perspective is based on my observations of people's reactions to INTJ's and not on my reactions.

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