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  1. #21
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    That isn't really consistent with the order of functions. Of all the NTs they have the stronger placement of inner feeling and values:


    INTP = Ti Ne Si Fe
    ENTJ = Te Ni Se Fi
    ENTP = Ne Ti Fe Si
    INTJ = Ni Te Fi Se
    But as you know being an F doesn't mean your feelings are more or less intense. Of all the people I know, the Fs freeze the best. The Ts lack the fine manipulation and just shut off Fs continue to give emotion but it's all cold.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  2. #22
    ~dangerous curves ahead~
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    Quote Originally Posted by bai_lin83 View Post
    I noticed that the mere mention of the word INTJ makes other people say, "Oh!"... <silence> and then walk away.

    What's with that?
    They're not the easiest of people to work with. Frequently high intelligence, strong willed, however, there is a certain inability and / or a disinclination to make themselves understood.

    I think (please correct me if I'm wrong, still working out the cognitive functions) this is primarily due to a confluence between a strong sense of themselves being right (Ni) based on their own insights, coupled with selective filtering of information to support their position (Te), often in ways which others find hard to follow given the abstraction.

    However, a failure to take in other/new information and views which could be valid (Se) to the case at hand, and the weak placement of Fi, mean they may also miss out on the nuances in others' feelings, which could affect the case at hand.

    Hence the appearance of being stubborn / abrupt / dismissorial of views that are different. When the reality is simply, they see it as their way is right and are not sure why others do not see it.

    In a group situation, this can be intimidating and difficult. Simply, the way a message is delivered influences how well it is received, vs. the correctness of the view itself. And an unwillingness to consider possibilities works against the very nature of a group, the chief advantage of which is to generate more possibilities & pick out more flaws to decide on a solution, vs one person working alone.

    and if I'm wayyyy off, please ignore this post. lol.

  3. #23
    Member ps646566's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Just to reverse this for a moment. It's been my experience with INTJs that they are neither blunt nor to the point. They only release what they feel comfortable in releasing, believing it to be a final solution and perfect, which seems to be why there is such a fuss made if you simply answer "no that's wrong". Also they are quite the opposite of being blunt, very rarely getting to any kind of serious point they are more akin to fencers, darting about and stabbing wildly.

    In the deeper conversations I've had with my INTJ friend I've had to spend quite a lot of time and effort breaking down the glib repeated answers to try and get at what is beneath only to find that what lies beneath the "final solution" hasn't been investigated properly and is, too my mind, ill formed.

    I admit that I am hardly unimpeachable in the regard of good foundation work but this is usually worse with hastily constructed reinforcement slapped in one what seem to be the places where criticism is levelled.

    Oh and if you want blunt in our group you go and see the ENFJ.

    No, no, no, no, no. That's way off beam. What I said in the first place is right . 100% right. I don't have to prove it, it just is, trust me .....
    INTJ bordering on ISTJ

  4. #24
    Member Hypomanic's Avatar
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    Hmm as J's they can seem closed minded, or decisively ingenious. I guess it has to be in context. I've seen sexist INTJ's and disliked them for not ever shutting up. I've also seen kick ass INTJ's whom I respect. Once again, context. I have a favorable view of INTJ's in general. They're the other primarily iNtuitive type.. what's not to love?

  5. #25
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ps646566 View Post
    No, no, no, no, no. That's way off beam. What I said in the first place is right . 100% right. I don't have to prove it, it just is, trust me .....
    You know, I was just expecting "No.".
    You must be mellowing or summint.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  6. #26
    Senior Member chippinchunk's Avatar
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    They seem a bit (uh...yeah...). It's hard to just have a normal, pleasent conversation with them, without it turning into a I'm-right-and-your-wrong thing. I'm friends with one and it's difficult. My friends hate him, and I can understand that, but I'm not going to stop haning out with him because of it. He's always over analyzing things and he can't just let things be. It's actually really depressing. It may be becuase of his type, but everything he says keeps me thinking that there is somthing behind his desire to show off his intellagence. Am I wrong, or does he just really want to be a smart alleck-y bastard?

  7. #27
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypomanic View Post
    Hmm as J's they can seem closed minded, or decisively ingenious. I guess it has to be in context. I've seen sexist INTJ's and disliked them for not ever shutting up. I've also seen kick ass INTJ's whom I respect. Once again, context. I have a favorable view of INTJ's in general. They're the other primarily iNtuitive type.. what's not to love?
    If you look at the functions over the letters it sheds a different light. Ni is about viewing issues from every perspective. I think people assume the INTJ thinks they are "right" when they are merely testing one position for its full potential. The problem is other people fold or make quick assumptions that this is some sort of conclusion. Also an INTJ is less likely to propose a viewpoint without some background analysis and insight. When encountering someone who has not taken the time to do this, that person may respond with "the INTJ thinks they are right" only because they were unable to refute the position. It is entirely possible the INTJ could and would refute their own position. Just a thought to consider.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    You should see what's going on over at the INTJ forum. It's a regular Donner party over there.
    "Donner, party of eighteen... Donner, party of eight... er, seventeen. Somebody get these people a table!"

  9. #29
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    Y'all seem to know some INTJs who lack a basic handle on critical argumentation.
    Dude, you got burried; mind expanding for the less enligtened? I have an INTJ in my Christian circle of friends and I find him decently approachable and extremely* helpful in keeping my head in a direction.

    Edit: *added for better scale of meaning
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

    INFP, 6w7, IEI

    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  10. #30
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Si is the function that create a single, detailed, comprehensive, measured world view. Ni is multifaceted. There are strengths and weaknesses to both approaches. These produce different debate styles, although I can see how a single instance could produce a similar appearance of style.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

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