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  1. #1
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    Default INTJs and time; ENTPs and space

    The old Immanuel Kant maintained that time is nothing but the form of the inner intuition; space cannot be known in itself but can be perceived as apparant via the external intuition. In this sense, the supposition is that time is ideational, which may be tenuous, but is nevertheless consistent with Einstein's General Theory of Relativity and many formal demonstrations. Let us assume that there is variation within humans, such that some have a preference for introverted intuition and others one for extroverted intuition. Let us also welcome the positivist's claim that theories should embrace Karl Popper's principle of falsifiability, and that a good theory entails observable manifestations, which can be checked off by succeeding scholars to see how well the theory squares with reality. The question then is: if Kant's argument is correct what observable manifestations might follow and are these manifestations an accurate reflection of reality?

    My thesis is as follows. Given the INTJ's preference for introverted intuition, the INTJ will naturally have a preference for time. If one naturally has a preference for time, then one may expect INTJs to have a preference for forms of thinking and activities that give one with a good sense of time the advantage. For example, the INTJ may be more likely to engage in abstract sequential thinking rather than concrete thinking and may be better suited for music rather than visual art.

    The ENTP on the other hand has a preference for extroverted intuition. From this it follows that the ENTP has a preference for space and may have their imagination prompt them to say things out of sequence and beyond the limits of their capacity for thought. The ENTP will be more likely to have a preference for forms of thinking and activities that give one with a good sense of space the advantage. For example, the ENTP may be more predisposed to engaging in imaginative thinking that is spatial and creative rather than syllogistic thinking that is abstract, sequentially ordered, and exact.
    ...
    Discuss.

  2. #2
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Introverted intuition would seem to give one a good sense of one's sequence of thoughts which would lend itself to determining duration.

    Extraverted intuition takes in information all at once so you could say that this requires placing that information in relationship and dealing with time only in terms of specific particularized moments.

    Interesting ideas.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  3. #3
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Provoker View Post
    ENTP has a preference for space and may have their imagination prompt them to say things out of sequence and beyond the limits of their capacity for thought.
    What do you mean by the bolded?

  4. #4
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    What do you mean by the bolded?
    I interpreted this as expressing ideas without feeling the need to form definite conclusions.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  5. #5
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
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    My experiences seem to confirm your theory. I do have a good sense of time, and I see how this could be true to most INTJs. I also absolutely favor music rather than visual art.
    I'm more concerned about time than most people, it has been my greatest nemesis before, and now it is my greatest aid. I guess this dichotomy applies to ENFPs and INFJs as well, right?

    (how does the theory of relativity support the idea that time is ideational?)

  6. #6
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    I interpreted this as expressing ideas without feeling the need to form definite conclusions.
    Explorative ideas versus conclusive ideas?

    Hmm, I'll wait to see if Provoker validates our interpretation.

  7. #7
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Was Iago an INTJ then?

    "How poor are they that have not patience!
    What wound did ever heal but by degrees?
    Thou know'st we work by wit, and not by witchcraft;
    And wit depends on dilatory time."
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  8. #8
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvyak View Post
    My experiences seem to confirm your theory. I do have a good sense of time, and I see how this could be true to most INTJs. I also absolutely favor music rather than visual art.
    I'm more concerned about time than most people, it has been my greatest nemesis before, and now it is my greatest aid. I guess this dichotomy applies to ENFPs and INFJs as well, right?

    (how does the theory of relativity support the idea that time is ideational?)
    This is starting to sound a bit like Otto Weininger's notion of the Sadist and the Masochist: Powered by Google Docs

    The sadist lives discontinuously in individual moments of time, he never understands himself: for him, every moment already has reality in itself; that is why he makes decisions easily, while the masochist can always only act on the basis of everything. The masochist is never in a position to ask himself, “How could I ever have done that? I don’t understand myself!” This is the sadist’s usual attitude to his past, which still does not, for that reason, lose its punctuated reality for him in the slightest. The sadist has the finest capacity for perception and the best memory for every momentary particular; his senses are continually engaged because all particulars have reality for him. The masochist suffers from long pauses, which he cannot fill with any reality.
    These ideas have enormous resonance for me as I have often considered Sadism / Masochism as essential sexual polarities and essential approaches to this thing we call Life. Weininger sees these polarities as part of some dualistic quality in men.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  9. #9
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Also, Weininger: "Clocks and calendars are the greatest enigma for the masochist even as a child, because time is always the main problem for him."
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  10. #10
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    Weininger is awesome in the potency and stridency of his ideas, though some regard him as an anti-Semitic Jew if you have a problem with that:

    The relationship of the sadist to the masochist is the relationship of the present to eternity. The present is the one thing over which a person has power; whoever feels
    free in it will use it, like the sadist; whoever feels that he suffers in it, because it is not
    real for him, seeks to awaken it to eternity. So also may the ethical striving of both be
    characterised: one wants to transform all eternity into present, the other, every present
    into eternity.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

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