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  1. #1
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Default aother entp idea.

    So-I made up a theory, cause thatís how I roll.

    I tried to figure out my purpose in life.

    ENFPs seem to be designed to do two things in a Te dominated society:

    1. Messengers of group pain-Use NeFi when young to be an empathic messenger of the other or a groupís pain. We take that message back to the Te doms to seek to have them implement a solution. Rejection of our emotion is designed to be biologically very painful-as that emotion actually serves as the driver to help the other. To have another reject that emotional offering means that it was found lacking, erroneous, and thus of no use to the group well being. Thus we are failures and useless to the group.

    2. Consultants to resolve group pain-As we age we use NeFiTe to actually build plans to resolve those problems. Now, we offer up not just our emotions, but our ideas for how to solve the problems of the group. Instead of our emotions-our Fi being the sole source of our ego, we now also begin to invest part of our worth in out ability to deploy Te in concert with Fi to help solve the problems of the group. If our ideas-and thus indirectly our emotional impetus to generate those ideas, is rejected, it can be very painful. This is because we have failed in our mission of service to the group, our ideas are of no value and thus we are useless.

    Using ENXP symmetry:

    ENTPs would seem to be designed for two things in an Fe dominated society:

    1. Ideas of value-when young they use NeTi to develop an enormous variety of novel ideas. They feel very rejected when their ability to generate ideas is rejected outright-not the individual ideas-but an overall condemnation of that innate ability.

    2. Service: to care for the group via those ideas-As they age they become something utterly beautiful. As Fe grows in they are become extensively intertwined into the Fe societal matrix. Thus now-like the enfps above-I would suggest no longer base their ego just on their ideas-Ti, but also on what value those ideas have to the society they live in-Fe. They become leaders and sincere stakeholders to those Fe obligations and to the others they interact with daily. As they age, this becomes more and more pronounced and they become more and more obligated to the group, via the sense of Fe caring and social commitment.

    Like all of my other ideas, this reeks of massive Ne, no judging functions and assumptive connections, and is in extensive need of correction by the actual ENTPs, cause I just guess at stuff, but in any case I figured Iíd drop it off, just in case there are any tidbits of truth.Ö

    If true, I stand endlessly corrected. The entps end up playing a beautiful, nurturing role....

  2. #2
    You're fired. Lol. Antimony's Avatar
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    Well, that is because we are beautiful, nurturing people, right?

    /fluff/
    Excuse me, but does this smell like chloroform to you?

    Always reserve the right to become smarter at a future point in time, for only a fool limits themselves to all they knew in the past. -Alex

  3. #3
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Thanks that's kind of you to say

    Can I protest anyways a bit to express a group's pain ?

    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  4. #4
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    i came to the same conclusion. although i didnt associate actions to functions; neither did I generalize it to include all entps...only myself

    i did generalize your enfp hypothesis though...it can be wrapped around any F dom, i think

  5. #5
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    can you apply this to ENTJ? i would be very interested...please try

    i know this entj girl and she is sort of the same as me when it comes to motivations for actions

    i agreed with your hypothesis based on ENTPs based on my own self. i came to the same conclusion through variables such as how i treat people and my actions towards and within groups. i cant apply the same to anyone else cuz i dont know anyone as well as i know myself. you seem to have come up with a formula that might define maturity in terms of Jungian functions. ive been wondering about this for quite sometime now. so try to generalize it if you will...

  6. #6
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Puppy View Post
    Using ENXP symmetry:

    ENTPs would seem to be designed for two things in an Fe dominated society:

    1. Ideas of value-when young they use NeTi to develop an enormous variety of novel ideas. They feel very rejected when their ability to generate ideas is rejected outright-not the individual ideas-but an overall condemnation of that innate ability.

    2. Service: to care for the group via those ideas-As they age they become something utterly beautiful. As Fe grows in they are become extensively intertwined into the Fe societal matrix. Thus now-like the enfps above-I would suggest no longer base their ego just on their ideas-Ti, but also on what value those ideas have to the society they live in-Fe. They become leaders and sincere stakeholders to those Fe obligations and to the others they interact with daily. As they age, this becomes more and more pronounced and they become more and more obligated to the group, via the sense of Fe caring and social commitment.

    Like all of my other ideas, this reeks of massive Ne, no judging functions and assumptive connections, and is in extensive need of correction by the actual ENTPs, cause I just guess at stuff, but in any case I figured Iíd drop it off, just in case there are any tidbits of truth.Ö

    If true, I stand endlessly corrected. The entps end up playing a beautiful, nurturing role....
    Interesting. I think of Ben Franklin who expressed an idea that you could do more to benefit the world by improving man's daily life than you could by embarking on a mission of reform. He used the example of inventing an inexpensive razor. By inventing a razor, you provide a means for man to see to his own needs without going to an unsanitary barber. Invention is all about problem solving. Recognizing a problem and solving it. Often people are motivated to make a difference but they don't stop to consider how to be effective. The example I always use is the person who gives money to the homeless. They are motivated by their own pity to help, which is noble yet in terms of effect their contribution is useless and possibly even detrimental. It's a wasted effort. Better to remember this pity and instead of having an instant reaction, step back into the 50,000 foot view and think about how you can actually solve the problem. While this does not satisfy the immediate emotional pang it is more worthwhile.

    When my father was in a coma I thought about all the things I could do to take the rough straw of my experience and spin it into gold. There were so many things I had to learn and so many A-ha moments that I felt like my experience could be useful to someone else in both practical and spiritual terms. In a way I felt very privileged to experience that tragedy because it provided a very unusual experience. There is value in that. And I knew that as someone with a modicum of intelligence and talent, I could be a resource for other people. Also, in a way, I really trust myself to survive and be strong when the chips are down and that's when I really come to the fore to help others. I often don't lead until others are hopeless or pessimistic because ultimately I only want to help when others need it and I believe in having a good attitude. Attitude is 90% of any battle.

    I don't know how much I have matured. I certainly feel fundamentally imperfect. But, I do know that the closer I get to making peace with myself, the closer I get to being calm and attentive to the world around me, the more I have resources for others.

    To my mind, this is just part of developing as a whole person. You start out working on yourself, then eventually you put your shoulder to the wheel for everyone else. In my case, it has just taken a lot longer.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  7. #7
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    i think the enneagram sets a specific kind of project for each person.

    as a 5w4, and an infj version at that, far more emotional information streams into me than intp versions. i am far more sensitive involving my own mood, my own relationship to the environment and ambiance and faces of others. i can't keep it out of me as easily as they can, tho i am similarly motivated to use my head (head-type) to prepare myself for any and all situations, to make myself perfectly capable, etc. in my way it's less about Ti kind of knowledge and more about having perfect steadying perspective, blending the whole enduring story into each and every action/practice i find myself acting out. 5w4 project is enlightenment.

    when i am at my best, i feel this way, this sort of perfect receptivity, perfect guidance, perfect listening, total transparency, weightlessness, etc. in every individual thing, difference, etc, i hear the whole story.

    the process has been similar. the function development is exactly what you would expect. Fe gets me out of myself, helps me learn, helps me solidify myself, learn to trust, imparts the inherent value of benevolence as a better method for living than its alternative. which pries open even the most closed off 5 to hear more, learn more, absorb more, merge with more, reconcile more, and become more aware. it is easier to blend with others, to keep the big picture in mind, and to know more definitely how your needs and the needs of others can move together for the benefit of both.

    i'm still figuring out the enp 7w8 programme, but for 7w6 the w6 tempers the 7 enthusiasm and optimism and gluttony for the new with a strong desire to become a pillar for others. the vulnerability that produces so much anxiety, at first running away from in anxious terror, and then paralyzed by it, is dealt with in a way to produce so much gentleness with an extremely fine-tuned Ne perspective bringing problem-solving optimism. the level of understanding and the sense of them being able to find anyone almost immediately is a sight to behold.

  8. #8
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    i'm still figuring out the enp 7w8 programme, but for 7w6 the w6 tempers the 7 enthusiasm and optimism and gluttony for the new with a strong desire to become a pillar for others. the vulnerability that produces so much anxiety, at first running away from in anxious terror, and then paralyzed by it, is dealt with in a way to produce so much gentleness with an extremely fine-tuned Ne perspective bringing problem-solving optimism. the level of understanding and the sense of them being able to find anyone almost immediately is a sight to behold.
    Explain the bolded, if you would.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  9. #9
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Explain the bolded, if you would.
    i don't know, Ne seems so capable of finding or locating context that seems invisible to others. as Ni, i supply it from the past, but if i don't have it, i don't have it. Ne seems so good at merging with whatever it is exploring and constructing all of the possibilities, potential movements, etc. it attaches either Fi or Ti judgments to new things so easily and effortlessly, it can find what it knows in the world around it (and extrapolate new connections very fast).

    Ne explores so many possibilities that seem difficult to detect or discern for others. these possibilities are what create the reality of the situation or the self or the conflict for others, so to have them quickly mapped out and see where they can go, and then attach what one has learned via Ti or Fi skillfully, especially with the 7w6 kind of intelligence which specializes in anxiety, fear, unchecked headiness, etc, works to find people. bc it is immediately aware of the fears of others.

  10. #10
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    i don't know, Ne seems so capable of finding or locating context that seems invisible to others. as Ni, i supply it from the past, but if i don't have it, i don't have it. Ne seems so good at merging with whatever it is exploring and constructing all of the possibilities, potential movements, etc. it attaches either Fi or Ti judgments to new things so easily and effortlessly, it can find what it knows in the world around it (and extrapolate new connections very fast).

    Ne explores so many possibilities that seem difficult to detect or discern for others. these possibilities are what create the reality of the situation or the self or the conflict for others, so to have them quickly mapped out and see where they can go, and then attach what one has learned via Ti or Fi skillfully, especially with the 7w6 kind of intelligence which specializes in anxiety, fear, unchecked headiness, etc, works to find people. bc it is immediately aware of the fears of others.
    Insightful. I can't speak for other Ne users, but I'm definitely more future oriented. I think looking over the ruins of the past is generally useless.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

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