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Thread: NTs and love

  1. #21
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    sorry for saying yikes...was a bit of a personal reaction there.

    i understand that approach i just don't know how it makes one happy...
    i would be happier letting my feelings guide me. if something about the situation was indeed a problem in the future then my feelings would change and dictate a new direction.

    which is most likely an awful approach to life
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  2. #22
    sammy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    sorry for saying yikes...was a bit of a personal reaction there.

    i understand that approach i just don't know how it makes one happy...
    i would be happier letting my feelings guide me. if something about the situation was indeed a problem in the future then my feelings would change and dictate a new direction.

    which is most likely an awful approach to life
    No need to apologize.

    Sometimes, I wonder what it would be like to just ride it out with my feelings, but it so rarely happens. When it does, I don't always make the best decisions trying to do something that's out of the ordinary (for me).

    Who's to say that letting feelings guide you is an "awful approach to life?" I think if your approach lends you the happiness you seek overall, and it lets you reach the potential in a relationship, then I disagree that it's awful. Every approach has its benefits within certain circumstances.

  3. #23
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    thanks, i guess you're right and i guess it makes you happier knowing you made the most logical decision? is it happiness tho...or just peace?
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  4. #24
    sammy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    thanks, i guess you're right and i guess it makes you happier knowing you made the most logical decision? is it happiness tho...or just peace?
    I think it may be a mixture of happiness and peace/satisfaction. I can imagine to myself what a relationship may play out like before entering it, especially when I'm fortunate to know as many elements as I possibly can.

  5. #25
    Senior Member copperfish17's Avatar
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    Talking Well.

    Almost every time someone asks me how I feel about someone/something, I'm at a loss for words. It's not usually because I don't harbor any feelings towards the subject at hand; I just can't articulate my feelings very well, and I'll admit that this does get frustrating at times. I'll hazard a guess in saying that many I think T's share the same problem.

    That said, I do make conscious efforts (it HAS to be done consciously for the most part - well, for me anyway) to show people that I care about them, especially towards people I identify as F's. I'm quite close with a bunch of NF's, and while I love them to bits, I'm afraid I might appear "cold" to them as their need for affirmation seems to be much greater than my own capacity for giving affirmation.

    Meh, showing affection just doesn't come naturally to me. I TRY THOUGH.
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    Well I have worked out the things I want in life, what I potentially lose in life and the maximum level of risk I am able to accept and so forth and drafted a list of requirements and suggested traits for someone to be my girl. If they fail (for traits that aren't boolean if they fall below an certain level) at any of the requirements then I will not consider them as a potential mate such as being irrational (above the threshold irrationality mentioned above) or wanting children (which I do not want). If I never find a girl who meets these requirements (and I can get into a relationship with) then I remain single forever. If I find a girl who meets these requirements they still won't necessarily become my partner; I still have to look for things I haven't thought of and see if they really are worth it (considering the suggested traits). If I find multiple girls who meet my requirements then I will evaluate which one to pick (if any) using the suggested traits.

    We all have things we want; goals. These goals are by their nature arbitrary as there is no absolute value system. A person without these goals is like a computer without input; they don't do anything as there is no objective meaning to existence. What separates the rational and the irrational is not possessing these goals but the way we go about completing them.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    If there is nothing I can do and it is in the hands of others... well... not pretty. I can become very obsessed with how to fix it and I don't know how.
    Take Effexor. It'll fix ya right up.

  8. #28
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    sorry for saying yikes...was a bit of a personal reaction there.

    i understand that approach i just don't know how it makes one happy...
    i would be happier letting my feelings guide me. if something about the situation was indeed a problem in the future then my feelings would change and dictate a new direction.

    which is most likely an awful approach to life
    I don't think a lot of NT's are fully capable of this. I'm not.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    There is a person in my family who constantly gets himself in financial difficulties and who is constantly needing family members to bail him out. The F's in the family (out of love) are always bailing him out - time and time again (wouldn't want him to end up on the streets). He can count on them to bail him out. Sometimes they even forgive his debts too. "I love you and I just want you to start with a clean slate. You don't owe me anything."

    A couple of T's in the family have bailed the person out like 2 or 3 times, but quickly cut him off after he failed to pay them back in short order. Another T (ENTP), has blatantly said to his face, "Because I love you, I will not enable you. If you want to hang out and talk, give me a ring. But, if you're calling to borrow money, don't bother. It's not going to happen. You need to grow up and learn to take care of yourself and your own finances and I absolutely will not be one to enable you. I'll still love you and we'll still be family. But, you will not do to me what you've done to them."

    An ISTJ has basically just made it known how much he despises being asked to borrow money. He hasn't said it in plain words, but the person knows it makes the ISTJ's skin crawl, so he doesn't ask. An ESTJ helped a few times, but then lashed out and said, "Enough is enough. I'm not a bank." And rest assured, the ESTJ keeps a running tab of the debt.

    I know for a fact that these 3 T's (and other T's in the family) love this person very much. But that love doesn't extend to the point of being used and abused. There comes a point where the T will cut someone off (and yet still love them).

    .....

    One SF in the family who always bails this person out is extremely loyal, but out of love she allows things to get "tangled" and "messy". The ESTJ, ENTP, and ISTJ are every bit as loyal as the SF, they just choose to keep it "clean" - they're not afraid to cut those ties. It has nothing to do with love.
    I hope I'm not misinterpreting your post here, but imo, this sort of behavior, quoting your own words: ("Because I love you, I will not enable you. If you want to hang out and talk, give me a ring. But, if you're calling to borrow money, don't bother. It's not going to happen. You need to grow up and learn to take care of yourself and your own finances and I absolutely will not be one to enable you.) is ok if the person is only a lazy bum or just really taking advantage of somebody who deeply cares about them, but it's NOT ok if the person is very sick, and by this i mean unable to care properly for themselves without some sort of assistance from others (mostly family). Do you disagree?

  10. #30
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    I don't see love strictly as an emotion, though I acknowledge that there are emotions associated with it. I see it as a set of behaviours or a way of being. How one acts is more important than how one feels.
    I totally disagree with this (I mean, I don't disagree with you of course, since that's just how you feel, I simply feel differently). I only see love as strictly an emotion, and actions must be a consequences of such an emotion. I would be really disappointed if my partner held the opposite view, it's too "practical".

    Anyway, I don't generally let my feelings "guide" me in everyday matters simply because, well, I don't automatically "have" feelings about most things thus it'd be impossible to use them as guide. For example, some Fs I know might say "If I don't attend the lecture I'll feel guilty"; I can't relate to such perspective, I can only say "If I don't attend the lecture, that will likely affect negatively my grade, and thus it's better if I do" (notice that in this case the F perspective is able to reach the same conclusion with lower computational requirements, thus efficient from a T-perspective). In love matters it's different, since by definition there must be feelings; in that case I usually let'em decide the course of action...
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