[NT] any nt's here NOT drawn to nf's for friendships and/or romance?

[Silencio]

I have a great basis for saying ENTJs like to micromanage people--and that's that I've noticed them doing it to myself and others (and many people complaining about it) in lots of different situations.

An ISFP manager would be more likely to try to talk to the underperforming employee in a polite and non-confrontational way and determine if his needs are being met sufficiently. Dominant Fi would most likely lead him to take the personal angle over the organizational one and make an attempt to reach out this person emotionally and non-confrontationally first.

An ENTJ manager is more likely to decide the employee is incompetent and take over the task or delegate it to someone else.



Maybe your Ni tells you that, but you're mistaken if you think a hands-off approach is characteristic of ENTJs. Why do you think other types so commonly perceive you as dominating, controlling and overbearing?

Even if Ni does usually tell you that taking over someone's work (or constantly telling them how to do it) is not the best course of action, some ENTJs (especially when upset the poor performance) will resort to Te+Se and throw sentiments of letting others work autonomously right out the window. Anyone who's ever had a stressed out ENTJ boss is familiar with this scenario.



I think you're hurt by the stereotype that ENTJs are overbearing micromanagers and so you're taking extra care to argue against it. I'm sure it must suck to be a balanced ENTJ who doesn't do kind of stuff and hear the stereotypes, but they have to come from somewhere.

Unfortunately, despite your best perceptions of yourselves, yeah, people do tend to see you that way. Sorry if that's shocking or if micromanaging isn't your intention, but that's frequently how it comes off to others and it's why ENTJs have a reputation for that sort of behavior. The only people arguing with it are ENTJs who are upset about the stereotype--not unlike the INFPs who spend post after post after post insisting that INFPs don't have a tendency to be overly sensitive.

Even if it's not true of you personally, it might very well be true of many people who share your MBTI type.

Dude...just stop embarassing yourself...

 

[Silencio]

I have a great basis for saying ENTJs like to micromanage people--and that's that I've noticed them doing it to myself and others (and many people complaining about it) in lots of different situations.

An ISFP manager would be more likely to try to talk to the underperforming employee in a polite and non-confrontational way and determine if his needs are being met sufficiently. Dominant Fi would most likely lead him to take the personal angle over the organizational one and make an attempt to reach out this person emotionally and non-confrontationally first.

An ENTJ manager is more likely to decide the employee is incompetent and take over the task or delegate it to someone else.



Maybe your Ni tells you that, but you're mistaken if you think a hands-off approach is characteristic of ENTJs. Why do you think other types so commonly perceive you as dominating, controlling and overbearing?

Even if Ni does usually tell you that taking over someone's work (or constantly telling them how to do it) is not the best course of action, some ENTJs (especially when upset the poor performance) will resort to Te+Se and throw sentiments of letting others work autonomously right out the window. Anyone who's ever had a stressed out ENTJ boss is familiar with this scenario.



I think you're hurt by the stereotype that ENTJs are overbearing micromanagers and so you're taking extra care to argue against it. I'm sure it must suck to be a balanced ENTJ who doesn't do kind of stuff and hear the stereotypes, but they have to come from somewhere.

Unfortunately, despite your best perceptions of yourselves, yeah, people do tend to see you that way. Sorry if that's shocking or if micromanaging isn't your intention, but that's frequently how it comes off to others and it's why ENTJs have a reputation for that sort of behavior. The only people arguing with it are ENTJs who are upset about the stereotype--not unlike the INFPs who spend post after post after post insisting that INFPs don't have a tendency to be overly sensitive.

Even if it's not true of you personally, it might very well be true of many people who share your MBTI type.

Ill humor you... Are you essentially saying that because a portion of the group is immature that they should all be disregarded as possible partners AND should be generalized in to the immature group? Right now you're pretty much just reinforcing the generalization that ENTJ's should be seen as immature and it's cool to forget about the mature ones because...well not sure...

TLDR: You mentioned you didn't like ENTJ's in general then the only reasons you had to back that up are ones that only involve the immature portion of them...STILL not digging...

 

[Silencio]

Oh, ENTJs
---

Is personal experience really the best indicator of truth? or analysis of the experiences based on pseudo-psychological terminology?

This thread puts a huge grin on my face as well

 

[simulatedworld]

Ill humor you... Are you essentially saying that because a portion of the group is immature that they should all be disregarded as possible partners AND should be generalized in to the immature group? Right now you're pretty much just reinforcing the generalization that ENTJ's should be seen as immature and it's cool to forget about the mature ones because...well not sure...

TLDR: You mentioned you didn't like ENTJ's in general then the only reasons you had to back that up were ones that only involve the immature portion of them...STILL not digging...

I've already answered all of these questions repeatedly. Go read the thread before you put words in my mouth.

 

[JustHer]

I've already answered all of these questions repeatedly.

No... you sort of regressed to anecdotal evidence because you failed to find a logical correlation between Te, Ni and micromanaging people in relationships.

 

[Silencio]

No... you sort of regressed to anecdotal evidence because you failed to find a logical correlation between Te, Ni and micromanaging people in relationships.

Yeah pretty much. Now he's trying to say that we're just defending our type out of a dislike for being criticized while that still doesn't do anything to prove the point that A)He's way off and can't prove anything against the facts of Te and Ni and B) uhh do you not realize you're the ONLY one DEFENDING your points? Pretty idiotic to say we're the same thing back at us as if it gives you leverage in the argument.

 

[simulatedworld]

No... you sort of regressed to anecdotal evidence because you failed to find a logical correlation between Te, Ni and micromanaging people in relationships.

Well first of all I wasn't talking about relationships. And secondly I explained precisely which Te tendencies may come off to others as micromanaging. Of course you ignored that part, but that's to be expected, I guess.

Yeah pretty much. Now he's trying to say that we're just defending our type out of a dislike for being criticized while that still doesn't do anything to prove the point that A)He's way off and can't prove anything against the facts of Te and Ni and B) uhh do you not realize you're the ONLY one DEFENDING your points? Pretty idiotic to say we're the same thing back at us as if it gives you leverage in the argument.

I know of enough others who agree with me that I don't really mind if two ENTJs disagree with a statement about negative tendencies of ENTJs.

 

[Silencio]

Well first of all I wasn't talking about relationships. And secondly I explained precisely which Te tendencies may come off to others as micromanaging. Of course you ignored that part, but that's to be expected, I guess.




I know of enough others who agree with me that I don't really mind if two ENTJs disagree with a statement about negative tendencies of ENTJs.

Nah she actually proved that Te tendencies, when combined with Ni doesn't come off as micromanaging at all. I guess you didn't understand that part, but that's to be expected, ya dig?

P.S.....: DERP! I know like 50 billion gazilion uthars that agree witz me!!!21

 

[heart]

I generally find ENTPs very easy to relate to as friends, but I am not attracted to them romantically...

I could never in million years image dating and getting along with a ETP.

 

[simulatedworld]

Nah she actually proved that Te tendencies, when combined with Ni doesn't come off as micromanaging at all. I guess you didn't understand that part, but that's to be expected, ya dig?

P.S.....: DERP! I know like 50 billion gazilion uthars that agree witz me!!!21

"Proved", lol. You think "proof" for anything exists within a purely subjective pop psychology system? Oh please.

 

[JustHer]

Well first of all I wasn't talking about relationships.

When it comes to compulsive micromanaging to the point of treating boyfriends like employees, yes, it is.

Try again, but this time with a little more heart!

 

[Silencio]

"Proved", lol. You think "proof" for anything exists within a purely subjective pop psychology system? Oh please.

LOL! K so you don't believe in the system at all then apparently... You're like one of those bible thumpers who picks and chooses what they want to take out of a system. OH LAWDY, DEM BE SOME FACTS!!!!

 

[Silencio]

"Proved", lol. You think "proof" for anything exists within a purely subjective pop psychology system? Oh please.

Try again, but this time with a little more heart!

I'd hate to see this idiot on the stand getting cross examined. Lul:hi:

 

[Orangey]

Hmmm, I don't see how it's controversial to say that ENTJs are more likely than other types (except the ESTJ) to resort to micromanagement as a solution to group-project problems. They are Te doms after all. And it would seem that Te is the only function you can really assign to the behavior that we're calling micromanagement. So who is more likely than a Te dom to micromanage people, a Te behavior? Sure, the detail-orientedness of micromanagement could be interpreted as requiring Si in addition to Te (ESTJs), but that doesn't mean that ENTJs aren't also predisposed, even if we grant that it may be to a lesser degree than their S counterparts, to micromanage. I would imagine that it's mostly in the Te, and that ESTJ's Si makes them more likely to do it than ENTJ's Ni, but both still do it more than other types.

 

[simulatedworld]

Hmmm, I don't see how it's controversial to say that ENTJs are more likely than other types (except the ESTJ) to resort to micromanagement as a solution to group-project problems. They are Te doms after all. And it would seem that Te is the only function you can really assign to the behavior that we're calling micromanagement. So who is more likely than a Te dom to micromanage people, a Te behavior? Sure, the detail-orientedness of micromanagement could be interpreted as requiring Si in addition to Te (ESTJs), but that doesn't mean that ENTJs aren't also predisposed, even if we grant that it may be to a lesser degree than their S counterparts, to micromanage. I would imagine that it's mostly in the Te, and that ESTJ's Si makes them more likely to do it than ENTJ's Ni, but both still do it more than other types.

^ That's pretty much the whole idea. Nice job.

A couple of ENTJs are pissy that their type is getting slammed, so they're whining about it. Boo hoo.

Try again, but this time with a little more heart!

Try reading again, but this time with a little more attention span. Notice the obvious transition to a generalized context here:

I have a great basis for saying ENTJs like to micromanage people--and that's that I've noticed them doing it to myself and others (and many people complaining about it) in lots of different situations.

I then went on to discuss managers and employees for the rest of my posts in the thread and haven't said anything about relationships in quite some time. Note how "in lots of different situations" broadens the context far beyond the limited scope of relationships.

 

[JustHer]

Hmmm, I don't see how it's controversial to say that ENTJs are more likely than other types (except the ESTJ) to resort to micromanagement as a solution to group-project problems. They are Te doms after all. And it would seem that Te is the only function you can really assign to the behavior that we're calling micromanagement. So who is more likely than a Te dom to micromanage people, a Te behavior? Sure, the detail-orientedness of micromanagement could be interpreted as requiring Si in addition to Te (ESTJs), but that doesn't mean that ENTJs aren't also predisposed, even if we grant that it may be to a lesser degree than their S counterparts, to micromanage. I would imagine that it's mostly in the Te, and that ESTJ's Si makes them more likely to do it than ENTJ's Ni, but both still do it more than other types.

Why is Te the function you would assign to micromanagement? I would say its most like an unhealthy manifestation of Fe, but all in all it is probably more of an enneagram thing. ENTJs are much more likely to say "I don't give a shit about how you do it, just get it done".

 

[Magic Poriferan]

Ack. The war has two theatres, does it?!

 

[Orangey]

Why is Te the function you would assign to micromanagement? I would say its most like an unhealthy manifestation of Fe, but all in all it is probably more of an enneagram thing. ENTJs are much more likely to say "I don't give a shit about how you do it, just get it done".

Well because to manage something is to exert control over the elements of that particular something. And to exert control over the elements of something is simply to impose an order onto them; to arrange and re-arrange; regulate; rule. That's definitional Te.

Extraverted Thinking helps us organize our environment and ideas through charts, tables, graphs, flow charts, outlines, and so on. At its most sophisticated, this process is about organizing and monitoring people and things to work efficiently and productively.

Originally I thought that you were thrown by the "micro" stem, because that implies an over-attention to details in the process of management, which could point more towards Si (and ENTJs don't have Si in their top four functions.) But my point was that even granting that TeSi micromanages more than TeNi, the Te still places micromanagement well within the ENTJs domain.

 

[simulatedworld]

Why is Te the function you would assign to micromanagement? I would say its most like an unhealthy manifestation of Fe, but all in all it is probably more of an enneagram thing. ENTJs are much more likely to say "I don't give a shit about how you do it, just get it done".

Fe can and does micromanage too. It's a general function of extroverted judgment, the process of rationally applying predictable order and structure to the external world.

In lots of situations it's a good thing, but sometimes it can go overboard. You're so busy getting pissed that I said something bad about your type that you haven't stopped to think about what Extroverted Thinking actually is and the system of dealing with life that this function label inherently implies.

For the 67th time, not all ENTJs are seen as micromanagers, but it's relatively common for people to perceive them that way--because it's in their nature to organize and manage the environment (which often includes others) according to objective procedural standards.

They don't mean to micromanage, but in their constant search for efficiency and logical organization, they may not recognize the value in other people's evaluations of their behavior.

From an ENTJ's perspective, most people are illogical, and their opinions don't matter--except insofar as they determine the nature of our social assumptions. And it is here that the ENTJ's powers of analysis are usually trained--on the gulf between our Thinking-oriented system and people's actual capacity for Judgment.

But my point was that even granting that TeSi micromanages more than TeNi, the Te still places micromanagement well within the ENTJs domain.

+1

 

[JustHer]

The micro part is definitely way off the mark, my first point was that excessive attention to detail is quite the opposite of what an ENTJ would be interested in/prone to doing.

Yes, your definition of management correlates well to Te. Micromanagement does not. Here is how it is defined (through Wikipedia):

Webster's Dictionary defines micromanage as: "to manage with great or excessive control, or attention to details".

Dictionary.com defines micromanage as: "to manage or control with excessive attention to minor details".[3]

Encarta online dictionary defines micromanage as: "attend to small details in management: to control a person or a situation by paying extreme attention to small details".[4]

Micromanagement was defined by Michael Scott on The Office (a satirical comedy) as "management on a more personal level," also known as 'microgement.'

So by definition, micromanagement is not something an NT would be prone to doing, since "personal level" corelates better to Fe users, and "attention to details" correlates better to Si users.