User Tag List

First 4567816 Last

Results 51 to 60 of 204

  1. #51
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    5,554

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JustHer View Post
    Actually, that was an excellent point. ENTJs are Ni users rather than Si users... this means that they are NOT interested in the details of how something develops, and they definitely do not, by any MBTI description, enjoy micromanaging. When I'm leading a project, I'd really rather NOT have to listen to the specific ways people do their tasks and all the tedious things they need to do to complete them. All I care about is that it all comes together in the end. One of my pet peeves on a group project is when people need excessive handholding.
    Terrific. That's you. That's not representative of most or all ENTJs.

    Your statement that using Ni instead of Si somehow means ENTJs never micromanage anybody is ridiculous.

    First of all, Te is a bigger priority for ENTJs than Ni, and Te prefers to organize and delegate tasks sequentially in order to move things forward. If you have an employee who's not performing his job accurately, this could very well threaten the success of the entire project and thus require a micromanaging response. ENTJs may not enjoy micromanaging particular pieces as much as ESTJs, but they'll suck it up and do it when they've identified an incompetent team member whose ineptitude could threaten the success of the entire project.

    Te doms often worry about the competence of the people they have to depend on and they're not above taking over a job if it becomes evident that the person it's assigned to is incompetent at it. I don't know where you got the erroneous idea that not being detail-oriented somehow exempts ENTJs from micromanaging. Servicing Te's goals can frequently lead ENTJs to this kind of behavior, in order to ensure the success of the larger goal.

    Quote Originally Posted by JustHer View Post
    Also, if you're into socionics at all, Si is actually an ENTJ's inferior function. ENTJs are quite vulnerable when it comes to every day tasks/routines, and are (along with ENFJs) the type most likely to neglect the details.

    So yeah, you might enjoy reading up a bit about about how Te Ni work together. You may really notice a lot that you have missed.
    So far your entire argument seems to be:

    1) "I don't do that so neither do any ENTJs."
    2) "ENTJs don't like details so they never micromanage", which is ridiculous.

    Ni may prefer focusing on the larger picture, but the more pronounced Te is well aware of the consequences of failure to execute smaller pieces of the plan in a timely and accurate fashion. Each piece of the structural unit needs to perform its proper function accurately, or the whole thing falls apart. That's basic Te credo.


    Quote Originally Posted by Silencio View Post
    Lol well ok I guess by saying ESTJ and 'S' types I was blurring my point that people have a negative image of ENTJ's. ENTJ's are VERY rarely seen as anything other than unhealthy... Sure Te dominant can cause that type of behavior but it's the Ni that considers all the possible things that the action could bring up. We don't want to create negative situations and usually in the process of using Ni to consider more options we stumble across some Fe and make a proper choice. yes I realize ENTJ's are somewhat notorious for being immature but the mature ones are very aware of their bossy tendencies and try to use a bit more Ni before spitting out what they think. I guess if you want to shove all ENTJ's in to the immature box then go ahead. There's a world of difference between a healthy and unhealthy type person and it just seems like Te dom ones get a ton of negative flack that overshadows the healthy ones to a point where it doesn't seem like they exist at all.
    Sure, and I've met some ENTJs who really had their shit together and did an awesome job of getting things done without stepping on anybody's toes. Nobody said it's impossible for ENTJs to do that, just that Te doms have a natural tendency to control and direct others, which some types (especially Ps) often interpret as inappropriate and threatening. If they didn't, there wouldn't be that common perception of them.

    And nobody said anything about "all ENTJs", btw.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silencio View Post
    Brilliant post. Clearly s/he(simulated world) doesn't have the intellectual capacity to understand the difference between Ni and Si.
    Or rather, simulatedworld has the intellectual capacity to recognize that Te is higher than Si/Ni in the E_TJ functional structure and will often lead to controlling and yes, micromanaging anything in the external environment that isn't performing according to expected standards.

    Perhaps silenco doesn't have the intellectual capacity to realize using Ni instead of Si doesn't magically preclude ENTJs from showing micromanaging tendencies. It's a function of dominant Te, not Ni vs. Si.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  2. #52
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    12,409

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    (Just not ENTJs. Keep them the hell away.)
    Quote Originally Posted by JustHer View Post
    I'm starting to think that you may have never met an ENTJ in your life. Or maybe your mom was an ENTJ and you have mother issues. Or maybe you're really dainty and weak willed IRL and you resent people who can instantly point out the obvious flaws in your underdeveloped Ti's logic.
    Damn you. You owe me a new keyboard.

  3. #53
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    8w7
    Socionics
    lick
    Posts
    80

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Terrific. That's you. That's not representative of most or all ENTJs.

    Your statement that using Ni instead of Si somehow means ENTJs never micromanage anybody is ridiculous.

    First of all, Te is a bigger priority for ENTJs than Ni, and Te prefers to organize and delegate tasks sequentially in order to move things forward. If you have an employee who's not performing his job accurately, this could very well threaten the success of the entire project and thus require a micromanaging response. ENTJs may not enjoy micromanaging particular pieces as much as ESTJs, but they'll suck it up and do it when they've identified an incompetent team member whose ineptitude could threaten the success of the entire project.

    Te doms often worry about the competence of the people they have to depend on and they're not above taking over a job if it becomes evident that the person it's assigned to is incompetent at it. I don't know where you got the erroneous idea that not being detail-oriented somehow exempts ENTJs from micromanaging. Servicing Te's goals can frequently lead ENTJs to this kind of behavior, in order to ensure the success of the larger goal.



    So far your entire argument seems to be:

    1) "I don't do that so neither do any ENTJs."
    2) "ENTJs don't like details so they never micromanage", which is ridiculous.

    Ni may prefer focusing on the larger picture, but the more pronounced Te is well aware of the consequences of failure to execute smaller pieces of the plan in a timely and accurate fashion. Each piece of the structural unit needs to perform its proper function accurately, or the whole thing falls apart. That's basic Te credo.




    Sure, and I've met some ENTJs who really had their shit together and did an awesome job of getting things done without stepping on anybody's toes. Nobody said it's impossible for ENTJs to do that, just that Te doms have a natural tendency to control and direct others, which some types (especially Ps) often interpret as inappropriate and threatening. If they didn't, there wouldn't be that common perception of them.

    And nobody said anything about "all ENTJs", btw.



    Or rather, simulatedworld has the intellectual capacity to recognize that Te is higher than Si/Ni in the E_TJ functional structure and will often lead to controlling and yes, micromanaging anything in the external environment that isn't performing according to expected standards.

    Perhaps silenco doesn't have the intellectual capacity to realize using Ni instead of Si doesn't magically preclude ENTJs from showing micromanaging tendencies. It's a function of dominant Te, not Ni vs. Si.
    Actually that last post by me was a troll Not so much fun when people antagonize you for lolz while they're trying to make a legit point, ya dig? Lesson to all NP's who get their kicks from NJ's srsness C:

  4. #54
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    8w7
    Socionics
    lick
    Posts
    80

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Terrific. That's you. That's not representative of most or all ENTJs.

    Your statement that using Ni instead of Si somehow means ENTJs never micromanage anybody is ridiculous.

    First of all, Te is a bigger priority for ENTJs than Ni, and Te prefers to organize and delegate tasks sequentially in order to move things forward. If you have an employee who's not performing his job accurately, this could very well threaten the success of the entire project and thus require a micromanaging response. ENTJs may not enjoy micromanaging particular pieces as much as ESTJs, but they'll suck it up and do it when they've identified an incompetent team member whose ineptitude could threaten the success of the entire project.

    Te doms often worry about the competence of the people they have to depend on and they're not above taking over a job if it becomes evident that the person it's assigned to is incompetent at it. I don't know where you got the erroneous idea that not being detail-oriented somehow exempts ENTJs from micromanaging. Servicing Te's goals can frequently lead ENTJs to this kind of behavior, in order to ensure the success of the larger goal.



    So far your entire argument seems to be:

    1) "I don't do that so neither do any ENTJs."
    2) "ENTJs don't like details so they never micromanage", which is ridiculous.

    Ni may prefer focusing on the larger picture, but the more pronounced Te is well aware of the consequences of failure to execute smaller pieces of the plan in a timely and accurate fashion. Each piece of the structural unit needs to perform its proper function accurately, or the whole thing falls apart. That's basic Te credo.




    Sure, and I've met some ENTJs who really had their shit together and did an awesome job of getting things done without stepping on anybody's toes. Nobody said it's impossible for ENTJs to do that, just that Te doms have a natural tendency to control and direct others, which some types (especially Ps) often interpret as inappropriate and threatening. If they didn't, there wouldn't be that common perception of them.

    And nobody said anything about "all ENTJs", btw.



    Or rather, simulatedworld has the intellectual capacity to recognize that Te is higher than Si/Ni in the E_TJ functional structure and will often lead to controlling and yes, micromanaging anything in the external environment that isn't performing according to expected standards.

    Perhaps silenco doesn't have the intellectual capacity to realize using Ni instead of Si doesn't magically preclude ENTJs from showing micromanaging tendencies. It's a function of dominant Te, not Ni vs. Si.
    And you seem to be missing that point the there's a huge group of ENTJ's who don't do that and also HATE being put in to the unhealthy box which all ENTJ's are seen as on this forum, yet you make a serious effort to say that since there are some, they must all be cast that way! I guess when you decided which type you like you were thinking of the unhealthy ones... Some are unhealthy THEREfore they must rep all of them, I dont dig...

  5. #55
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    5,554

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Silencio View Post
    And you seem to be missing that point that there's a huge group of ENTJ's who don't do that and yet you make a serious effort to say that since there are some, they must all be cast that way! I guess when you decided which type you like you were thinking of the unhealthy ones... because they exist!!! THEREfore they must rep all of them, ya dig?
    Uhh, no, I didn't say anything about all ENTJs. Even regular healthy ENTJs run into problems with strong P types because Ps resent being controlled to such a high degree.


    Quote Originally Posted by JustHer View Post
    I'm starting to think that you may have never met an ENTJ in your life. Or maybe your mom was an ENTJ and you have mother issues. Or maybe you're really dainty and weak willed IRL and you resent people who can instantly point out the obvious flaws in your underdeveloped Ti's logic.

    In any case, my suggestions for therapy stands. It really helps to talk it out.
    Mom is ESFJ and we get along really well. Te types usually find Ti-oriented reasoning specious and vice versa. That's just the nature of type differences.

    Ironically, the one person I spend the most time talking to for advice and guidance is actually himself an older and very well-balanced ENTJ. I just tend to clash with most Te doms in a situation where we have to work together because Ne needs a lot of freedom to spread out and change plans abruptly.

    Actually the type that differs by only the last letter ("quasi-identicals" in socionics) tends to be a major source of conflict because both types think about the same things but believe the other is going about it all wrong. "You're almost doing that right!"
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  6. #56
    sammy
    Guest

    Default

    Oh, ENTJs
    ---

    Is personal experience really the best indicator of truth? or analysis of the experiences based on pseudo-psychological terminology?

  7. #57
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    976

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by teslashock View Post
    I find that I get along best with other TPs and and INTJs in terms of friendships/relationships/partnerships. I actually think NFPs are some of the hardest types for me to mesh with.
    I generally find ENTPs very easy to relate to as friends, but I am not attracted to them romantically. Great friends, however. Low-maintenance friends; very nice for a moody hermetic bastard like myself...

    Obviously, vastly more romantic potential seems to exist between NTJs and NFPs and NFJs and NTPs than between NTPs and NFPs or NTJs and NFJs...

  8. #58
    Pumpernickel
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Posts
    1,960

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post

    First of all, Te is a bigger priority for ENTJs than Ni, and Te prefers to organize and delegate tasks sequentially in order to move things forward. If you have an employee who's not performing his job accurately, this could very well threaten the success of the entire project and thus require a micromanaging response. ENTJs may not enjoy micromanaging particular pieces as much as ESTJs, but they'll suck it up and do it when they've identified an incompetent team member whose ineptitude could threaten the success of the entire project.
    You're completely missing the point. Te for an ENTJ is focused on systems, ideas, and goals. For an ESTJ, it is focused on specifics (maybe tasks and procedures, but I wouldnt know). If you have to look at it in terms of managing things, ENTJ = macromanaging, ESTJ = micromanaging. You have absolutely no basis for saying that ENTJs like to micromanage people. You are arguing that they will do it if it is absolutely necessary... what type DOESNT do things that are necessary? Are you saying an ISFP manager wouldn't get involved if their corporation was being threatened?

    Also, ENTJs hardly react instantaneously to things (that would be more Se doms). They give Ni priority for determining how they should proceed, and often Ni will tell them that to flat out take over someone else's work will NOT be the most effective option.

    Take from this what you will, but from an ENTJ standpoint.. everything you are telling me about my type seems foreign and ridiculous to me (as well as some of the others here, apparently) so if it doesn't bother you to know that you are making random inaccurate statements about people then that's cool bro.

  9. #59
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    9,849

    Default

    Five stars!!!
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  10. #60
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    5,554

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JustHer View Post
    You're completely missing the point. Te for an ENTJ is focused on systems, ideas, and goals. For an ESTJ, it is focused on specifics (maybe tasks and procedures, but I wouldnt know). If you have to look at it in terms of managing things, ENTJ = macromanaging, ESTJ = micromanaging. You have absolutely no basis for saying that ENTJs like to micromanage people. You are arguing that they will do it if it is absolutely necessary... what type DOESNT do things that are necessary? Are you saying an ISFP manager wouldn't get involved if their corporation was being threatened?
    I have a great basis for saying ENTJs like to micromanage people--and that's that I've noticed them doing it to myself and others (and many people complaining about it) in lots of different situations.

    An ISFP manager would be more likely to try to talk to the underperforming employee in a polite and non-confrontational way and determine if his needs are being met sufficiently. Dominant Fi would most likely lead him to take the personal angle over the organizational one and make an attempt to reach out this person emotionally and non-confrontationally first.

    An ENTJ manager is more likely to decide the employee is incompetent and take over the task or delegate it to someone else.

    Quote Originally Posted by JustHer View Post
    Also, ENTJs hardly react instantaneously to things (that would be more Se doms). They give Ni priority for determining how they should proceed, and often Ni will tell them that to flat out take over someone else's work will NOT be the most effective option.
    Maybe your Ni tells you that, but you're mistaken if you think a hands-off approach is characteristic of ENTJs. Why do you think other types so commonly perceive you as dominating, controlling and overbearing?

    Even if Ni does usually tell you that taking over someone's work (or constantly telling them how to do it) is not the best course of action, some ENTJs (especially when upset the poor performance) will resort to Te+Se and throw sentiments of letting others work autonomously right out the window. Anyone who's ever had a stressed out ENTJ boss is familiar with this scenario.

    Quote Originally Posted by JustHer View Post
    Take from this what you will, but from an ENTJ standpoint.. everything you are telling me about my type seems foreign and ridiculous to me (as well as some of the others here, apparently) so if it doesn't bother you to know that you are making random inaccurate statements about people then that's cool bro.
    I think you're hurt by the stereotype that ENTJs are overbearing micromanagers and so you're taking extra care to argue against it. I'm sure it must suck to be a balanced ENTJ who doesn't do kind of stuff and hear the stereotypes, but they have to come from somewhere.

    Unfortunately, despite your best perceptions of yourselves, yeah, people do tend to see you that way. Sorry if that's shocking or if micromanaging isn't your intention, but that's frequently how it comes off to others and it's why ENTJs have a reputation for that sort of behavior. The only people arguing with it are ENTJs who are upset about the stereotype--not unlike the INFPs who spend post after post after post insisting that INFPs don't have a tendency to be overly sensitive.

    Even if it's not true of you personally, it might very well be true of many people who share your MBTI type.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

Similar Threads

  1. Any INFP's here magnetically attracted to ISTJ's? LOL
    By Kho in forum Intertype Relations
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 05-28-2016, 01:25 AM
  2. Obama proposes companies to report wages for race and gender
    By great_bay in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 88
    Last Post: 02-06-2016, 12:29 PM
  3. [MBTItm] Are NT Rationale threads inherently boring to NFs?
    By Esoteric Wench in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: 09-30-2011, 02:23 AM
  4. [NT] Any NT's here working dead end jobs ?
    By themarlins in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 03-07-2011, 01:56 AM
  5. New Here, Not New to MBTI
    By coconut in forum Welcomes and Introductions
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 07-12-2010, 09:43 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO