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  1. #101
    Junior Member periscopes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unique View Post
    I'm not, find they read into emotional subtext that isn't there for NTs which is highly irritating, nothing worse than someone assuming you were insinuating something then won't listen to any logic

    That's not to say there aren't NFs I like, but they certainly aren't a preference

    haha, guilty...

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Right, but why is focusing on how you get to the desired goal more a function of Si than of Te? That doesn't really jive with this book you sent me. Te is described as focusing intently on making sure things are done according to the society-wide standards that govern the way things are supposed to be done, measured and evaluated. Te needs to be able to depend on the fact that when you do x, it always results in y.
    Society-wide? That has nada to do with Te, at least in this context. You, perhaps unintentionally, are equating Te usage with STJ behavior...When you want to differentiate a function--i.e. figure out what it is, in and of itself, it's fun to look at the commonalities/noncommonalities found in the disparate types who use a particular function. Extroverted Thinking is characterized, above all, by bottom line effectiveness in the real-world results. Te is about utility; predictable, efficient and desired results. Process is completely subservient to results. Process is useful only to the extent that it predictably achieves a desired end.

    Here's LT: Extraverted Thinking

    As one would expect, NTJs, particularly INTJs, are often very specific about the process they themselves use to accomplish something, and even dogmatic about the "best method," but in positions of leadership, they often could not care less how you complete task x, provided you do it well.


    Here's David Mamet, whom I believe to be an NTJ, in an excellent results-and-only-results book on acting:

    Amazon.com: True and False: Heresy and Common Sense for the Actor (9780679772644): David Mamet: Books

    One of the most hilarious things Mamet says is that X, Y, and Z actors who came through X, Y and Z schools did not succeed because of their training, but either in spite of it, or because their training included something peripheral to the method taught in X, Y and Z schools--namely, getting up on stage and performing many times. In other words, in Mamet's view, the essential things are talent and practice, and nuances of acting "methods" are meaningless blather...

    I'm reminded btw, of Roger Corman, an INTJ filmmaker who was so precise in his empirical orientation that he used to do things like only paint the side of a piece of furniture that would be seen on film...

  3. #103
    Senior Member hermeticdancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unique View Post
    I'm not, find they read into emotional subtext that isn't there for NTs which is highly irritating, nothing worse than someone assuming you were insinuating something then won't listen to any logic

    That's not to say there aren't NFs I like, but they certainly aren't a preference
    Yes but I would also build off what you said and argue that the NF
    expects that the NT has more emotion then they actually do, they interpret the world through feelings, and may take things more personally, and express "assumptions" as a defense mechanism. In order to correct this the NF has to realize this about herself and the NT has to be more patient, and be willing to teach the NF logic, it can work if the NT, and NF are not too extreme, open, more willing to balance and help each other understand they mean when they speak.

    The N provides the overlap, the intuitive or abstract idea oriented way of seeing the world, we can both relate to. Ask the person, let me see it your way... why do you think they way you do? Examine it and then you will be able to explain your own thinking process to someone else and they in turn will be able to better understand you. Most especially an NF. You would be surprised. We are life long students and love to learn new things from smart people. We may not become like you, but will love you for it.
    And we can understand the way you think and translate our feelings and assumptions into cogent thoughts that make sense so we can better communicate with you and have more sensible and satisfying discussions.

    The brain is plastic... remember. At least that's what I believe. Mine feels that way sometimes...

    In essence have the patience to teach your way of logic to an emotional student, and also learn how the emotional brain works too.

  4. #104
    Senior Member hermeticdancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    I've dated one INFP, one ENFJ and a couple of ENFPs, but once I found an ENTP girl all of them paled in comparison.

    So yeah, here's an NT who prefers other NTs for romance. (Just not ENTJs. Keep them the hell away.)

    As for friendship, I have a number of NF friends. I think they're delightful for that, but romance (for me anyway) requires too much similarity in perspectives for the inevitable T vs. F clash to be manageable.
    You could be right...

    The T versus F clash is very powerful, I think it is good that you picked up on that and you know what you want. So, do you think you will only date NTs? or Just Ts? of any type? What if you found out you fell in love with a person and they were and F with a strong T? Are you open to it?

  5. #105
    Senior Member hermeticdancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teslashock View Post
    I find that I get along best with other TPs and and INTJs in terms of friendships/relationships/partnerships. I actually think NFPs are some of the hardest types for me to mesh with.
    I don't know if I have met an ENTP in real life. Only online... I don't see what the big deal is. ENTP seems delightful, funny, insane... intelligent.

  6. #106
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Ack. The war has two theatres, does it?!
    You know what they say about fighting a war with two fronts, right?


    WE WIN!

  7. #107
    Senior Member hermeticdancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silencio View Post
    Correction: NT's are sarcastic as hell whereas NF's think they are but come off as annoying and immature. They also tend to get upset over an NT's blatant sarcasm because they percieve non-existant cristism/insults :P
    "NF's come off as annoying and immature"

    "they perceive non-existent criticism/insults"

    I get what you are trying to say. You are saying NF's are too sensitive, aren't good at sarcasm, and take your bluntness as a personal insult when that is not how it is intended to be.

    However you did contradict yourself.

    And what kind of positive person would say that? ("NF's come off as annoying and immature")

    Your comment sounds more like a sweeping generalization, then a sarcastic remark.

  8. #108
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    NTs are still awesome even if you haven't come to terms that we're awesome yet.

  9. #109
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fecal McAngry View Post
    Society-wide? That has nada to do with Te, at least in this context. You, perhaps unintentionally, are equating Te usage with STJ behavior...When you want to differentiate a function--i.e. figure out what it is, in and of itself, it's fun to look at the commonalities/noncommonalities found in the disparate types who use a particular function. Extroverted Thinking is characterized, above all, by bottom line effectiveness in the real-world results. Te is about utility; predictable, efficient and desired results. Process is completely subservient to results. Process is useful only to the extent that it predictably achieves a desired end.
    No, Lenore actually does relate Te to societal standards because Te-ers view society as a working unit that can't function the way it's supposed to without rules and regulations governing the way its pieces interact with each other. I was surprised to read this too because I thought that sounded more like Fe, but there you go. I don't have the book with me at the moment, but I'll provide quotes later if you want.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fecal McAngry View Post
    Here's LT: Extraverted Thinking

    As one would expect, NTJs, particularly INTJs, are often very specific about the process they themselves use to accomplish something, and even dogmatic about the "best method," but in positions of leadership, they often could not care less how you complete task x, provided you do it well.
    Yeah I've already read everything on that site, but it doesn't cover a lot of the key portions of the Te chapter in the actual book.

    What you say may be true, but the problem is that Te doms so frequently worry about the competence of their team members, sometimes justifiably and sometimes not. If they've decided you don't know what you're doing, you can expect constant backseat driving until they're sure you're not going to fuck it up again.

    Sure, they'll leave you alone if you're doing a good job already because then it doesn't matter how you got it done, but it's when they don't like your performance that shit really hits the fan. The Te dom believes he's the only one who knows the proper way of doing anything and that it's up to him to save the day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fecal McAngry View Post
    Here's David Mamet, whom I believe to be an NTJ, in an excellent results-and-only-results book on acting:

    Amazon.com: True and False: Heresy and Common Sense for the Actor (9780679772644): David Mamet: Books

    One of the most hilarious things Mamet says is that X, Y, and Z actors who came through X, Y and Z schools did not succeed because of their training, but either in spite of it, or because their training included something peripheral to the method taught in X, Y and Z schools--namely, getting up on stage and performing many times. In other words, in Mamet's view, the essential things are talent and practice, and nuances of acting "methods" are meaningless blather...

    I'm reminded btw, of Roger Corman, an INTJ filmmaker who was so precise in his empirical orientation that he used to do things like only paint the side of a piece of furniture that would be seen on film...
    Right, good examples. But have you ever worked with an ENTJ who thinks you're totally incompetent (even if you're not)? This is what I'm talking about.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  10. #110
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    No, Lenore actually does relate Te to societal standards because Te-ers view society as a working unit that can't function the way it's supposed to without rules and regulations governing the way its pieces interact with each other. I was surprised to read this too because I thought that sounded more like Fe, but there you go.
    Lenore says. Lenore says. Lenore says. Lenore says. Lenore says. Lenore says.
    Lenore says. Lenore says. Lenore says. Lenore says. Lenore says. Lenore says.
    Lenore says. Lenore says. Lenore says. Lenore says. Lenore says. Lenore says.
    Lenore says. Lenore says. Lenore says. Lenore says. Lenore says. Lenore says.
    Lenore says. Lenore says. Lenore says. Lenore says. Lenore says. Lenore says.
    Lenore says. Lenore says. Lenore says. Lenore says. Lenore says. Lenore says.

    Are you incapable of making a post without parroting Lenore Thomson?

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