[Jungian Cognitive Functions] Ever fall into Ni/Ti thinking loop?

[INTPness]

My example of a Ni/Ti loop would probably be more along the lines of:
I wake up on a snowy day with the wind howling, and something inside(Ni) tells me to roll off the bed because the professor will be discussing something important today. While my Ti tells me that it's cold, windy, and I would be liable to freeze my dangly bits off.

Then Te would come in and say, "dude, just throw on a heavy coat and get your butt out there.If you stay in bed today, this will become a habit"

Finally Ne says, "perhaps this lousy weather is part of a nefarious plot by those diabolical hamsters..."

LOL. All of this is so very familiar. In this particular case, I'm liking what Ti has to say. And they say Ti is useless :rolli:

 

[milkyway2]

Yeah I think it was more Ne I described.

I am pretty sure Ni is my weakest function. I barely understand what it is and I'm pretty sure I don't use it much.

 

[Domino]

I Ni-Ti loop frequently.

 

[Poki]

I hit my TiNi loop trying to understand social/relationship stuff.

Ti says this isnt logical, then Ni comes in and says well this is how it is, Ti then says, but it cant be logical because it didnt work, Ni says it shuld have worked, Ti says "your idea was stupid", then Ni says "your dumbass created me", then Fe comes along, twists their ears and pulls them aside and says "look twiddle dee and twiddle dumb" you do it this way because its whats socially normal. Then Ti looks at Ni and says, but we arent social. Then Se comes in, pulls Ti and Ni aside and says "I need to make it around that car, through the grass, over the curb, take that U-turn that kinda looks like I will need to break the tires loose so I dont have to look like a tard and do a 15 point u-turn.

 

[nightning]

Reading through this thread has not been particularly illuminating and perhaps someone else is in the same boat.

Good point. How exactly do we tell which is which when the descriptions themselves are fuzzy and difficult to observe in people because they use several functions together?

-------

I believe the end conclusion of the day is: Functions never get along. Problem solved!

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Reading through this thread has not been particularly illuminating and perhaps someone else is in the same boat.

I could give specific quotes but anyone should be able to see:

Sometimes the way you guys talked about Ni (in terms of generating ideas for an essay) makes it sound more like Ne

Sometimes the way you guys talked about Ti (in terms of organizing and structuring an essay) makes it sound more like Te.

A lot of people probably think that just because it's being done inside, it's Ti, but all thinking is done internally (you don't say, Sherlock !).

Even if it's done using purely imaginary fodder, categorizing, structuring, and inductive reasoning seems to be the domain of Te to me. So in the case of structuring essays, wouldn't that be Te?

Similarly, analogies, logic problems, and deductive reasoning seems to be the domain of Ti, even if you are applying it to physical things in the outside world such as trying to solve a mystery involving diabolical hamsters.

I agree. I've tried to make that point before, but it didn't really take. Not being able to organize thoughts is more about Te, imo, than Ti. Perhaps and Ne/Te loop? Ti is about one thought process being perfect and concise and well defined.

My example of a Ni/Ti loop would probably be more along the lines of:
I wake up on a snowy day with the wind howling, and something inside(Ni) tells me to roll off the bed because the professor will be discussing something important today. While my Ti tells me that it's cold, windy, and I would be liable to freeze my dangly bits off.

Then Te would come in and say, "dude, just throw on a heavy coat and get your butt out there.If you stay in bed today, this will become a habit"

Finally Ne says, "perhaps this lousy weather is part of a nefarious plot by those diabolical hamsters..."

I wasn't sure I did this loop then I read another member's post (d4mselfly), and I was like, AHA! I do this all the time when I've had a relationship issue, and I have had not enough Fe data to help me understand what is going on, leaving me to muddle through it on my own. So it looks like this for me:

Ni sees what it wants to see and makes it all sound sooo plausible. Fe said, "No, that's not how it is," yet it didn't/couldn't elaborate to a sufficient degree. A sufficient degree would probably mean weeks of dialogue and rehashings/revisitings. So Ti starts trying to grind it all down into an understandable pill to swallow.

But Ti sucks ass because it's much nicer to remain irrational and see with Ni than Ti. So, even though some relief will be had after Ti has done its thang (relief that, for me, lasts maybe hours or days), stark reality ensues, and just doesn't feel very good or comfortable or settling; and Ni addiction will kick back in like the serpent in the Garden of Eden and be like, "That's not reeaallly how it is. Your intuition was really right all along, you know," and in that split second, the Mind's reality will feel even better than True reality, and you are tricked into eating the Apple, thinking all the time maybe This IS true reality, and that you were wrong to ever have listened to Ti in the first place.

Then when the stuporous effects wear off, as they will, confusion enters because life in your head doesn't jive with life in the real world and you wonder why, eliciting Ti's help again..............

Ni is a fucking drug. It's the true blue pill. I love it. But it can be hazardous to your health if it's not diluted with Fe (and Se?). (if you're an infj, Te if you're intj).

And I guess that's how my loop goes.

 

[visaisahero]

My INFJ girlfriend is heavily addicted to Ni and I have to BOMBARD her with Ti to get her out of it. (This is with her begrudging consent- she knows that she never gets anything done when she's being an Ni junkie, and she sort of depends on me to get her out of it)

Creepy thing, Ni.

 

[visaisahero]

Ni/Ti is the WORST during essays! How would Fe or Te step in to fix things? If anyone finds the secret, I want to know! It's like Ni and Ti are two very different people who go around redoing and cancelling out each other's work constantly and leaving people in a constant state of flux without the work ever done!

The problem of the Loop:

Ni: People are inherently good.

Ti: Um, no they're not.

Ni: Fine. People are inherently evil.

Ti: Um, no they're not.

Ni: Fine, people are inherently ambiguous.

Ti: How're you gonna prove that?

Ni: TRA LA LA LA LA

Fe: Goddamn it, we need help!

The way I see it, the problem with the Ni/Ti loop is that both of them sort of... directly contradict each other. You need your Fe or Te to come in and hold back the Ti first, and allow the Ni to elaborate before the Ti cuts things short.

How the loop might be solved?:

Ni: People are inherently good!

Fe: Can you give me some examples?

Ni: blah blah blah

Ti: That's nonsense.

Fe: Can you explain why?

Ti: blah blah blah

Fe: Is that always the case?

Ti: Well I suppose there are exceptions...

Ni: HMPH NYEH NYEH

Fe: Okay, what else could we talk about?

Ni: Well, I suppose sometimes people may behave differently depending on circumstances, upbringing, values, culture... things may not be as straightforward because other factors come into play

Fe: And they are?

Ni: blah blah blah

Fe: Now we have both sides of the story, I can come to a reasonable conclusion and finish our essay.

Se: YAY LET'S GO PARTY

Ni:

Ti:

Fe: X_X

 

[yenom]

God, I don't know how to explain this.

So here is an example;

Right now I am doing a part time job washing dishes and moving stuff around in the kitchen of the restaurant. its physically exhausting because I have to work for many long hours.

Then I think about SJs, they do the same stuff everyday, moving and lifting heavy things for 10+hours everyday for at least 6 days a week. Why do they waste so much energy doing this stuff. Don't they ever get bored doing the same stuff everyday, and its so physically exhausting.

So lets say I am a SJ, and I go to work washing dishes everyday. What do I gain from this experience? Will an SJ ever wake up and learn to think like an intuitive. If an SJ spend everyday washing dishes for 1000 years, will he finally wake up , gain some wisdom and think like an NT? (let say there is some technology for life extension that can extend your life from 100 years to a 1000 years or to a very long time, like maybe 100x the life span we are now).

Then I think about if I live 1000 years, and observing the same shit happening again and again, humanity making the same mistakes over and over again, will I grow wiser? Will the people with lower intelligence start thinking the way I am thinking if they live 100years?

Then I think about inventing some technology that can eliminate such retarded jobs like washing dishes, and doing the same thing, day after day, so humanity can free itself to do more creative persuits. Then I think about, washing dishes, what is the purpose of washing dishes, or building skyscrapers (like people who actually build the buildings and have to lift a lot of heavy weights, basically manual labor). how do i invent some technology that can end their suffering. Or when will the lower class actually gain some wisdom and stop doing these jobs. What will happen in the future?

What are we trying to achieve with the work we are doing everyday, etc etc.

/thought

Of course I am keeping all this thinking inside myself. its like thinking something so far ahead and makes no sense that you cannot communicate with anyone.

 

[yenom]

The only person who thinks like this and I can relate to is Bill Gates. He used his Ni along with his ti really well.


But I am guessing Einstein also have this way of thinking. Its like making alot of weird connections in your head and analyzing them to create theories that makes no sense to anyone but yourself. (Its like imagination) Maybe thats how Einstein come up with the theory of relativity.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Then I think about inventing some technology that can eliminate such retarded jobs like washing dishes, and doing the same thing, day after day, so humanity can free itself to do more creative persuits. Then I think about, washing dishes, what is the purpose of washing dishes, or building skyscrapers (like people who actually build the buildings and have to lift a lot of heavy weights, basically manual labor). how do i invent some technology that can end their suffering. Or when will the lower class actually gain some wisdom and stop doing these jobs. What will happen in the future?

What are we trying to achieve with the work we are doing everyday, etc etc.

/thought

Of course I am keeping all this thinking inside myself. its like thinking something so far ahead and makes no sense that you cannot communicate with anyone.

When you realize that work is a valuable part of life, it will bring you peace which is better than any amount of longevity or intelligence. Why therefore, would you want to do away with it?

 

[visaisahero]

Cloud:

"Then I think about SJs, they do the same stuff everyday, moving and lifting heavy things for 10+hours everyday for at least 6 days a week. Why do they waste so much energy doing this stuff. Don't they ever get bored doing the same stuff everyday, and its so physically exhausting."

Some people actually enjoy hard work, and some people do it to make ends meet! Most people have some hope or plan for personal growth/development and career advancement, but some of them give up because of faulty methods, unfavourable circumstances or even fear of change/risk.

"Will an SJ ever wake up and learn to think like an intuitive. If an SJ spend everyday washing dishes for 1000 years, will he finally wake up , gain some wisdom and think like an NT?"

This is quite mean and chauvinistic thinking... there are SJ's out there who have more wisdom than most NTs, ya know! But I see where you're coming from.

"Then I think about if I live 1000 years, and observing the same shit happening again and again, humanity making the same mistakes over and over again, will I grow wiser?"

Perhaps. Thinking about it is a start, for sure! There's always the danger of getting complacent and self-indulgent, though.

"Will the people with lower intelligence start thinking the way I am thinking if they live 100years?"

Perhaps. Maybe, maybe not- perhaps they might even develop a superior way of thinking altogether. The relationship between intelligence or thinking methodology is not directly related to time- I would think it is more closely related to experience. Some people develop at amazing rates when put through difficult experiences, for example.

"Then I think about inventing some technology that can eliminate such retarded jobs like washing dishes, and doing the same thing, day after day, so humanity can free itself to do more creative persuits."

Fair enough!

"Then I think about, washing dishes, what is the purpose of washing dishes, or building skyscrapers (like people who actually build the buildings and have to lift a lot of heavy weights, basically manual labor). how do i invent some technology that can end their suffering. Or when will the lower class actually gain some wisdom and stop doing these jobs."

I think the point you're neglecting is opportunity- most people will progress when given opportunity (through education, training, economic growth), rather than through wisdom or intelligence.

I couldn't help but commenting on your thoughts, I hope you don't take offense!

This comes across as Ne to me. Are you an xNxP?

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

^i think cloud's trying to show off his Ni^

 

[visaisahero]

I obviously can't know him better than he knows himself, of course. Perhaps it's Ni Te? I still need to work on this.

 

[visaisahero]

The only person who thinks like this and I can relate to is Bill Gates. He used his Ni along with his ti really well.


But I am guessing Einstein also have this way of thinking. Its like making alot of weird connections in your head and analyzing them to create theories that makes no sense to anyone but yourself. (Its like imagination) Maybe thats how Einstein come up with the theory of relativity.

Einstein and Bill Gates are rather different, in my humble opinion. Einstein's dominant function was Ti, whereas I'm pretty sure Bill Gates is more of a Te sort of guy.

Also, there are many people out there who think like this too! Have you been to Ted.com?

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

I obviously can't know him better than he knows himself, of course. Perhaps it's Ni Te? I still need to work on this.

Perhaps just an immature xntj?

 

[visaisahero]

Perhaps just an immature xntj?

you said it! not me! I said nothing!

But yes, I doubt that Ti is one of his strong points; we're looking at a probable Te Ni here

 

[Jaguar]

Then I think about SJs, they do the same stuff everyday, moving and lifting heavy things for 10+hours everyday for at least 6 days a week.

It seems you have a problem with routine and simplicity, Cloud.
Does that mean you are unlikely to say something like this?

I have simple pleasures. I play bridge online for 12 hours a week.

 

[visaisahero]

I've worked menial jobs involving hard manual labour but I always find some way to remain mentally engaged- there's always something interesting to observe and analyse and learn from, if you keep your eyes (and mind) open

 

[Poki]

What aphrodite said about her loop makes lots of sense.

Ni-has an internal perception and Ti makes a judgment


Now the Ti/Ni loop is more spastic. Ti makes a judgment and Ni says nope, doesnt match my perception here, back to Ti. Ti makes a judgment, Ni says nope, doesnt fit here. This is where Fe needs to step in and say, this is just the way it is, but Fe doesnt really know what to do, so Se has to step in and say just do something.