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Thread: Prove yourself

  1. #61
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    I knew he wasn't talking about you, since you are not a pretentious windbag.
    I'm honestly quite appreciative that you'd say that in public. Thank you.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  2. #62
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    I'm honestly quite appreciative that you'd say that in public. Thank you.
    You're not going to send me bunny slippers again, are you?

  3. #63
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    You're not going to send me bunny slippers again, are you?
    That was my last pair. I hope you hold on to them.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  4. #64
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyNoLimits View Post

    A lot of you seem to be missing the point of this exercise, which is to emphasize the biggest hurdle in NT personal development--finding what value the real world and emotions has to offer you.

    Because the NT temperament thinks abstractly without concrete or emotional checks and balances, it tends to self-inflict the very state of ignorance it initially sought to avoid. It is those with the deepest desire for truth who will bite into the hook of false knowledge the hardest (SW anyone?) Behind a wall of intellectuality, self-enabling thoughts are allowed to fester and the NT slips further away from the actual truth. As they lose their grasp, pride develops to protect the ego.

    The end result is ironic, especially if the NT sees them self as a pedagogue, as others assume competence is the explanation for the intellectually haughtiness and develop misplaced trust in the false ego. They start to replace their accurate (albeit humble) knowledge for lofty theories (perhaps even mimicking them, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery after all) and the ignorance spreads. This also serves to bolster the NT confidence and usually sealing their fate.


    I don't really care how you define success, but attempting to do so in a concrete manner is the first step towards overcoming the vicious cycle of intellectual masturbation and the ignorance it induces. By becoming more receptive to their concrete and emotional nature, the NT becomes a more balanced individual overall, ultimately fueling a greater degree of success through their preferred means.
    This actually makes a lot more sense than your original post, IMO. This post includes some things that weren't touched on at all in the OP. And I can relate to it in *some* ways. I do believe, as simulated world said, that it's more of an NTP issue.

    I will admit (and I'm not proud of it) that there have been times where I have kind of basked in this intellectual haughtiness myself. It usually happens when I'm discussing an issue with someone (perhaps a sensor) and I'm able to out-argue them just by pure logical skill and technique, but then I walk away and think, "That person actually knows more about the subject than I do; all I did was play devil's advocate and out-argue them."

    And I do agree, at least for myself, that I'm more well-rounded and better able to connect with others when I pay time and attention to concrete details and to emotions/feelings. It may not necessarily make me "better", but more well-rounded. The reason I say I may not be "better" is because I believe I'm at my best when I'm operating within my strengths and talents - and those strengths (the things I'm best at and have gotten the best results at) are often abstract, relatively speaking. I don't think that "writing" is abstract - I actually think it's concrete - but, a lot of sensors see things like writing, composing music, and photography as "abstract".

    If you show me how to troubleshoot an engine or give me tips on how to better interact with people, it definitely makes me more well-rounded. And I should place importance on those things. But, those still are not my natural strengths.

    So, I don't know if this was the kind of "exercise" you wanted to engage us in, but I can feel what you're saying in your above post much more than your OP.

  5. #65
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    He's correct that NTs can and should try to learn more about the S and F sides of life, but he's not correct that NTs have no accurate knowledge about anything and no definition of success.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  6. #66
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    He's correct that NTs can and should try to learn more about the S and F sides of life, but he's not correct that NTs have no accurate knowledge about anything and no definition of success.
    Agree 100%.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Oh, I figured since it was negative and could potentially be about me, you'd probably interpret it that way if at all possible.
    I was referring to SolitaryWalker. Why do you think it was negative? He is a good example, no? Do you think this is about me putting down NTs?

    If you want to know where I'm speaking from, my best friend of 10 years is a quintessential INTP and most of my friends besides him have been NTs since we get along well. I've worked closely with INTx for the last 3 years and spending time on the internet I've seen a fair bit of writing done by NTs here and elsewhere.

    If I have any "beef" on the topic of intellectuality is that I dislike the notion that athletic types are stupid or meatheaded, but the reason I made this is because I genuinely like to see people develop for the better and I just can't seem to keep my mouth shut about some of my observations. Please don't take it personally, even if my wording is uncouth... that is just how I speak.

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    He's correct that NTs can and should try to learn more about the S and F sides of life, but he's not correct that NTs have no accurate knowledge about anything and no definition of success.
    Of course not, that would be ridiculous claim to make. I am actually saying the opposite... because NTs are able to grasp abstractions they are usually quite accurate in speech, which I think is also why this paradoxical behavior develops. The most intellectually capable NTs tend to steer towards disaster if they do not retain a respect for concrete senses and emotional factors.

  8. #68
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    And while we're on the topic of becoming "well rounded",

    The idea that N's would be better served by concentrating more on their "S".........

    is equal to........

    The idea that S's would be better served by concentrating more on their "N".

    I know many a sensor that could use some intuitive insight and a little more deeper thinking in order to see the bigger picture.

  9. #69
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyNoLimits View Post
    If I have any "beef" on the topic of intellectuality is that I dislike the notion that athletic types are stupid or meatheaded, but the reason I made this is because I genuinely like to see people develop for the better and I just can't seem to keep my mouth shut about some of my observations. Please don't take it personally, even if my wording is uncouth... that is just how I speak.
    I don't think you're uncouth. Just problematically imprecise to the extent that it damages your premise.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    And I do agree, at least for myself, that I'm more well-rounded and better able to connect with others when I pay time and attention to concrete details and to emotions/feelings. It may not necessarily make me "better", but more well-rounded. The reason I say I may not be "better" is because I believe I'm at my best when I'm operating within my strengths and talents - and those strengths (the things I'm best at and have gotten the best results at) are often abstract, relatively speaking.

    So, I don't know if this was the kind of "exercise" you wanted to engage us in, but I can feel what you're saying in your above post much more than your OP.
    Absolutely. I would not even think it is a good idea for NTs to forsake their preference, what I am saying is that this preference actually gains effectiveness when the NT themselves retain a sense of concrete reality and emotions.

    The OP is just a means to an end. It's like you say about "out arguing" someone. Were you really successful (gain) in that situation or just "win" intellectually? By forcing NT to face real world "success" (of course the definition is flexible) they can see how they shoot themselves in the foot with their own capabilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    I know many a sensor that could use some intuitive insight and a little more deeper thinking in order to see the bigger picture.
    If they can't realize it themselves, then they might just need you to slap them across the face with it. Err, I mean... demonstrate its value.

    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    I don't think you're uncouth. Just problematically imprecise to the extent that it damages your premise.
    I know this isn't a bulletproof statements which NTs like so much, but I still think the general idea is helpful! From what I read of your writing you are mature so that may explain why you don't relate to the pattern.

    This is about all I can think of though. I'm hoping NTs can take the idea and run with it.

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