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Thread: Prove yourself

  1. #21
    Earth Exalted Thursday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyNoLimits View Post
    "The only difference between genius and insanity is success"

    Why should the world take the NT intellectual as seriously as they take themselves? Use objective, real-world (sensor) benchmarks.
    Because an individual takes himself in any manner, the world must acknowledge him as such. If others resist, it is of no consequence since time and the will of the individual shall shape the fabric of "reality" or how others see him due to how fervantly he views himself. Not to say that delusion will make others deluded too, but to say that when someone puts such force into being one way, the natural forces of the world tend to side with the more just and fervant of dynamics, like a tree that grows upright but was raised in a windy territory that blows to the left, now the tree leans/grows to the left.
    I N V I C T U S

  2. #22
    "Everything in its place" fill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyNoLimits View Post
    Just so we're clear, none of you (besides FluffyWolf) will answer this because of how the question was worded?
    In a way - yes. Because you asked us a "why" question, which hardly ever has an answer most people can understand, nor do I have an answer for you; I can't prove my worth - you'll have to do that for me.

    If that is the case, it brings up a different question--can you dismiss tangible "real world" problems or questions the same way? Is that a working strategy?
    I can, yes. But I'll fail, so I don't. This is where I (maybe other ENTPs, too) tend to bullshit if we don't deem the situation important enough to take seriously.
    "Poor bastard. Wait 'till he sees the bats. "
    enneagram - 7/5/3

  3. #23
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyNoLimits View Post
    Just so we're clear, none of you (besides FluffyWolf) will answer this because of how the question was worded?

    If that is the case, it brings up a different question--can you dismiss tangible "real world" problems or questions the same way? Does that really work?
    Depends on the problem.

    The lack of answer is more about the lack of clarity of the question. You want a subjective "proof". Are you just asking whether we accomplish things in the real world? Or are you asking how NT views the world?

    NTs aren't obviously different from other types until you really start talking and communicating with us. Some of us are lazy bums. Others of us run large organizations. Some of us are happily single, others of us have large families. Type has nothing to do with "success" one way or the other. Type is just a particular way of perceiving and judging the world, no more, no less.

    Just because we're NT doesn't mean we have neither Sensing nor Feeling. Just as your being S doesn't mean you have no intuition. Never mind the classic typing problem between ISTP and INTJ (both have Ni) and INTP (both have Ti).

    As for your main question, if FluffyWolf is the only one who gave an acceptable answer, notice that his answer is very reluctant, answering the gist of your question, all the while saying that your question really doesn't have an answer.

    In fact, your question is a good example of what MBTI is for: the problem isn't that you don't have a valid question, but you're going to have a difficult time asking it, because of your different way of perceiving and evaluating the world. Your standards for success or proof may or may not be another's standards.

  4. #24
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fill View Post
    In a way - yes. Because you asked us a "why" question, which hardly ever has an answer most people can understand, nor do I have an answer for you; I can't prove my worth - you'll have to do that for me.



    I can, yes. But I'll fail, so I don't. This is where I (maybe other ENTPs, too) tend to bullshit if we don't deem the situation important enough to take seriously.

    But does that bullshitting eventually stall you enough time in order to succeed in the end? If yes, how do you go about that? And why do you consider it succes? What do you consider succeeding? And is that genius or ...sheer luck and half-assing it? Questions, questions....
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  5. #25
    "Everything in its place" fill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    But does that bullshitting eventually stall you enough time in order to succeed in the end? If yes, how do you go about that? And why do you consider it succes? What do you consider succeeding? And is that genius or ...sheer luck and half-assing it? Questions, questions....
    Hah, I don't call bullshitting success whatsoever, so I do this if I don't feel my hard work in a situation will yearn success (which, by my definition is: doing better than nearly everyone and being recognized for it).

    This reminds me of a quote from the show Community.

    "The funny thing about being smart is that you can get through most of life without having to do any work." - Jeff

    I've had many circumstances where I realize the hilarity/stupidity/nonsensicality of a situation and see it as an opportunity for countless possibilities, which usually aren't very productive - but if my unproductive work isn't seen as any more productive than actually productive work, I find it quite difficult to take it seriously.

    So - yes - I will incessantly bullshit people who show me signs of never appreciating me. "All of the true things that I am about to tell you are shameless lies." -Bokonon (Cat's Cradle, Vonnegut)
    "Poor bastard. Wait 'till he sees the bats. "
    enneagram - 7/5/3

  6. #26
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    No doubt.

    I'd still offer this: a given SP builds houses. He installs flooring, he's a roofer, he lays tile, he's a framer, etc. He makes our homes physically sturdy and aesthetically appealing. And he does a great job.

    But, ironically, most of the advances in technology that continue to happen - the advances that give us "modern" homes with modern amenities (instead of log cabins) are being conceived in the minds of a dreaming NT or highly educated engineers who believe in an idea, etc, etc. I'm talking about the big advancements in how buildings are constructed, the types of appliances we use, the newer amenities that many of us have in our homes - solar panels, computers, home security systems, low energy appliances, ad finitum. The list is a long one.

    Without the NT, these things just don't exist and we're stuck in 1938. The SP installs these things and you'll often hear him moaning, "What genius designed this piece of crap? Obviously someone who has never installed it!" Yet, the NT's continue to create these advances while the SP continues to be the installer of them. Why anyone would bemoan these NT contributions is beyond me.

    I say NT's need SP's and SP's need NT's. NT's need SP's to "apply" it, but NT's are the ones thinking of it, testing it, and designing it. Why does one have to be more important or "successful" than the other?
    And if it's about "success" as society defines it, you can have it. With that said, the guy who lives on the huge parcel of land on the outskirts of town with the huge house and is always being talked about by everyone else in town...9 times out of 10 that guy is going to be an NT.

  7. #27
    *hmmms* theadoor's Avatar
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    I wanna see the cats fighting, if you know what I mean.
    Oh yeah?

  8. #28
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyNoLimits View Post
    "The only difference between genius and insanity is success"

    Why should the world take the NT intellectual as seriously as they take themselves? Use objective, real-world (sensor) benchmarks.

    Dad?
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  9. #29
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Dad?

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Proof: your question is asking one to "prove" a subjective standard using "objective, real-world" evidence.

    Your query fails, a priori.
    Na. He need only define success. Here, I'll inject a definition from my macbook pro.

    success |s?k?ses|
    noun
    the accomplishment of an aim or purpose : the president had some success in restoring confidence.
    the attainment of popularity or profit : the success of his play.
    a person or thing that achieves desired aims or attains prosperity : I must make a success of my business.
    archaic the outcome of an undertaking, specified as achieving or failing to achieve its aims : the good or ill success of their maritime enterprises.
    I've aimed to achieve the rank of Eagle Scout, and done so.
    I've aimed to lose weight and get into shape, and done so.
    I've aimed to steal a girl from her boyfriend of four years, and done so.
    I've aimed to do well in school, and retain what I've learned in my classes, and done so.
    I've aimed to never drive while under the influence of alcohol, and have done so (so far).
    Etc.

    Should he not be satisfied with my definition, he might just take the time to better refine his demands.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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