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[Te] Te's uhh

visaisahero

New member
Joined
Nov 13, 2009
Messages
557
MBTI Type
ENTP
where do you stand on the gas pedal, or the brake?

you can't discuss these things out of context, and as a general rule it's always better to have a holistic and well-rounded approach. Hypotheses serve their purpose, but are pointless on their own. Good ones enrich and enlighten. Bad ones you can learn from. In both cases, to follow your scientific method analogy, you need to follow up with concrete experimentation, analysis and conclusion.
 

JHBowden

New member
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
201
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
3
visaisahero is correct. There is a difference between an inference, a hypothetical, and an explanation.

Hypotheticals can be true or false, but they do not explain anything. Explanations may need to use hypotheticals. Inferences, unlike hypotheticals and explanations, are totally different -- they can be valid or invalid, but not true or false.

For example, suppose someone says, how can the Earth move, given our eyes detect no stellar parallax? We can explain this with the hypothesis that the stars are very, very far away. After looking at possible alternatives, we may make an inference to the most probable explanation.
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
19,129
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Where do you stand on hypothetical?
Confused... :confused: :cry: Could you give us an example of what sort of situation you're thinking of? 'Cause I'd love to help out, considering the fact that I'm Te-dom too...
 

Illict91

New member
Joined
Sep 19, 2008
Messages
30
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
8w7
Hypothesis is of secondary concern

In the context of academia or research, I tend to gather as much concrete evidence as possible before coming to some form of acceptance on a hypothesis.
A hypothesis must be thorough, structured and cover a vast amount of contingencies concerned with the issue to be accepted.
A hypothesis or theory is of secondary concern, and in a majority of cases, the facts will speak for themselves.

A specific example, I recently watched a 3-hour documentary that handled the issue of complex life in the solar system.
The documentary had a 'Rare Earth Hypothesis' segment followed by a 'Mediocrity principle' segment.
I paid careful attention to both sides and came to accept the Rare Earth hypothesis as a proper explanation in the present, since it explained nine factors involved with planets being hospitable to complex life such as the galactic habitable zone and plate tectonics being heavily involved in the formation of life-hospitable planets.

Te does not draw conclusions independently.
I am entirely open to the issue of complex life in the solar system, should further evidence emerge that states otherwise.
This would be Ni assisting me with "synthesizing the seemingly paradoxical or contradictory" and it would also apply to Introverted Sensing (Si) assisting ESTJ's in forming conclusions from a hypothesis.
 
T

ThatGirl

Guest
What I meant by this was, I tend to like only my own N, or N that is on my level. For instance I will sometimes bat around the typical "hypothetical" idea, or out there possibilities and notions. However when in the presence of extremely hypothetical people, I get annoyed to death by the redundancy of spaced out thought. If I am not in the mood for hypothetical, it tends to not only seem, from my perspective, both obsessive and at times crazy.

Mostly I get this way around INFJs and INTPs. Anyway was just wondering if this was a Te thing, or more S trait in general.
 

Katsuni

Priestess Of Syrinx
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Messages
1,238
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
3w4?
Hypothetically, I sit.
 

htb

New member
Joined
May 14, 2007
Messages
1,505
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
1w9
If I am not in the mood for hypothetical, it tends to not only seem, from my perspective, both obsessive and at times crazy
Past-perfect subjunctive (if this or that had been) annoys me to the point where I will demand the other stop considering the impossible.
 

Metamorphosis

New member
Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
3,474
MBTI Type
INTJ
What I meant by this was, I tend to like only my own N, or N that is on my level. For instance I will sometimes bat around the typical "hypothetical" idea, or out there possibilities and notions. However when in the presence of extremely hypothetical people, I get annoyed to death by the redundancy of spaced out thought. If I am not in the mood for hypothetical, it tends to not only seem, from my perspective, both obsessive and at times crazy.

Mostly I get this way around INFJs and INTPs. Anyway was just wondering if this was a Te thing, or more S trait in general.

In my experience (based on the ENTP's I've known), once they reach a conclusion they stick with it regardless of the introduction of refuting/superior evidence, and in fact, may become offended by arguments that oppose their own. So...I guess I can see how types like mine, which explore every possibility (hypothetically), could cause you problems.

To compare, it would be like how we only care about something to the extent that it is usable, which probably annoys INTPs.
 

JHBowden

New member
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
201
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
3
However when in the presence of extremely hypothetical people, I get annoyed to death by the redundancy of spaced out thought.
I can sympathize with what you *might* be saying, in that I hate it when people use words in a way where it isn't clear what the words refer to. Some people string words together without saying anything at all. This happens a *lot* in philosophy. A non-question might be asked, such as "how is knowledge possible?" and a non-answer is given, "knowledge is made possible by the necessary a priori categories of our understanding using schemata structured via inner and outer intuition..."

Still, we use hypotheses all of the time. Someone can ask, why is Bob poor, given he comes from a rich family? We can explain this by introducing hypotheses-- maybe Bob isn't good with money, and his family hates him.

:nerd:
 

Katsuni

Priestess Of Syrinx
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Messages
1,238
MBTI Type
ENTP
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3w4?
In my experience (based on the ENTP's I've known), once they reach a conclusion they stick with it regardless of the introduction of refuting/superior evidence, and in fact, may become offended by arguments that oppose their own. So...I guess I can see how types like mine, which explore every possibility (hypothetically), could cause you problems.

To compare, it would be like how we only care about something to the extent that it is usable, which probably annoys INTPs.

I find it's quite generally the opposite, it just doesn't look that way.

If I reach a conclusion, I'm fully open to changing it, but yeu're going to have to fight for every inch of the way and prove yeurself fully. Yeu can't just go "I think yeu're wrong" and expect me to change my mind when yeu don't even know why I should. I will pull apart every piece of evidence given and make sure yeu know whot it is yeu're talking about. If yeu do, great, I'll change my mind once I know the alternative is closer to correct. I just don't change my mind on a whim is all.

Most likely, most other entp's are similar. Explore a ton of options in rapid succession, compare each, pick the one that makes the most sense at the time. Once they think they're right, yeu need to seriously know yeur stuff to change their minds.

As such, hardly "set in our way", just... don't want to change without a good reason to. If there's a good reason, then sure. Yeu just need a very good reason is all; chances are if yeu find an entp not changing, yeu're just explaining things poorly or they're finding too many gaps in yeur logic. If yeu can persevere and take on the seemingly endless stream of challenges they'll put yeur idea through, and make it to the end, then yeu can change our mind =3

If yeu give up halfway through, or hit a few loopholes or gaps in yeur argument, and can't fully fix them, then it'll be written off as just another mistake to be ignored.
 

uumlau

Happy Dancer
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Feb 9, 2010
Messages
5,517
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INTJ
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953
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
What I meant by this was, I tend to like only my own N, or N that is on my level. For instance I will sometimes bat around the typical "hypothetical" idea, or out there possibilities and notions. However when in the presence of extremely hypothetical people, I get annoyed to death by the redundancy of spaced out thought. If I am not in the mood for hypothetical, it tends to not only seem, from my perspective, both obsessive and at times crazy.

Mostly I get this way around INFJs and INTPs. Anyway was just wondering if this was a Te thing, or more S trait in general.

Oh. That.

That's Ti/Ne (and Ne/Ti). With respect to INFJs, it's kind of the same deal, when you start invoking their objective side, you get Ti, which as often as not will invoke Ne (not Se).

What's going on is that you as an xNTJ have a particular end or purpose in mind when involved in an objective discussion. You want to solve a problem, or figure out how to organize something, and so on. (Te stuff.)

Ti, especially Ti plus iNtuition, wants to explore the problem, not "solve" it. It's a totally different perspective. Ti folks seem to assume that you want to explore the problem, too. After all, if you don't "really" understand the problem, any solution you might derive might be wrong. Right?

Ni/Te and Te/Ni want to "explore" only insofar as to reach a conclusion in a reasonable amount of time, and then execute a plan. Ti will wonder what's the rush? What about this other piece of your problem, you know, where if this one really weird improbable thing happens, then your plan will fail?

Te weighs probabilities, and then executes. Ti explores possibilities. (I'm mostly assuming as combined with Ni/Ne ... I'm not as familiar with the S versions.)
 

visaisahero

New member
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Nov 13, 2009
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557
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ENTP
Redundantly excessive anything is a pain in the ass. You almost always would be better off with a little bit of everything, to keep things interesting. </ENTP>
 

visaisahero

New member
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Nov 13, 2009
Messages
557
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In my experience (based on the ENTP's I've known), once they reach a conclusion they stick with it regardless of the introduction of refuting/superior evidence, and in fact, may become offended by arguments that oppose their own. So...I guess I can see how types like mine, which explore every possibility (hypothetically), could cause you problems.

To compare, it would be like how we only care about something to the extent that it is usable, which probably annoys INTPs.

That's very strange. As an ENTP myself, I seldom (if ever) stick with any of my conclusions for very long- I'm always looking to refine them, and sometimes I even disregard them entirely when I find a better explanation.

Did you mean to say ENTJ?
 
T

ThatGirl

Guest
Oh. That.

That's Ti/Ne (and Ne/Ti). With respect to INFJs, it's kind of the same deal, when you start invoking their objective side, you get Ti, which as often as not will invoke Ne (not Se).

What's going on is that you as an xNTJ have a particular end or purpose in mind when involved in an objective discussion. You want to solve a problem, or figure out how to organize something, and so on. (Te stuff.)

Ti, especially Ti plus iNtuition, wants to explore the problem, not "solve" it. It's a totally different perspective. Ti folks seem to assume that you want to explore the problem, too. After all, if you don't "really" understand the problem, any solution you might derive might be wrong. Right?

Ni/Te and Te/Ni want to "explore" only insofar as to reach a conclusion in a reasonable amount of time, and then execute a plan. Ti will wonder what's the rush? What about this other piece of your problem, you know, where if this one really weird improbable thing happens, then your plan will fail?

Te weighs probabilities, and then executes. Ti explores possibilities. (I'm mostly assuming as combined with Ni/Ne ... I'm not as familiar with the S versions.)

This one, especially the bolded parts. Thank you, informative post.
 

Metamorphosis

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Messages
3,474
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I find it's quite generally the opposite, it just doesn't look that way.

If I reach a conclusion, I'm fully open to changing it, but yeu're going to have to fight for every inch of the way and prove yeurself fully. Yeu can't just go "I think yeu're wrong" and expect me to change my mind when yeu don't even know why I should. I will pull apart every piece of evidence given and make sure yeu know whot it is yeu're talking about. If yeu do, great, I'll change my mind once I know the alternative is closer to correct. I just don't change my mind on a whim is all.

Most likely, most other entp's are similar. Explore a ton of options in rapid succession, compare each, pick the one that makes the most sense at the time. Once they think they're right, yeu need to seriously know yeur stuff to change their minds.

As such, hardly "set in our way", just... don't want to change without a good reason to. If there's a good reason, then sure. Yeu just need a very good reason is all; chances are if yeu find an entp not changing, yeu're just explaining things poorly or they're finding too many gaps in yeur logic. If yeu can persevere and take on the seemingly endless stream of challenges they'll put yeur idea through, and make it to the end, then yeu can change our mind =3

If yeu give up halfway through, or hit a few loopholes or gaps in yeur argument, and can't fully fix them, then it'll be written off as just another mistake to be ignored.

It's possible that it's a matter of maturity. I haven't really known any really mature ENTP's irl. It's highly unlikely that they were finding gaps in my logic or I was explaining it poorly. I could see more mature ENTPs being as you describe, though.
 

theadoor

*hmmms*
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
586
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esfp
Enneagram
8w9
Hypotheses serve their purpose, but are pointless on their own. Good ones enrich and enlighten. Bad ones you can learn from. In both cases, to follow your scientific method analogy, you need to follow up with concrete experimentation, analysis and conclusion.

:nice:
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
19,129
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
What I meant by this was, I tend to like only my own N, or N that is on my level. For instance I will sometimes bat around the typical "hypothetical" idea, or out there possibilities and notions. However when in the presence of extremely hypothetical people, I get annoyed to death by the redundancy of spaced out thought. If I am not in the mood for hypothetical, it tends to not only seem, from my perspective, both obsessive and at times crazy.

Mostly I get this way around INFJs and INTPs. Anyway was just wondering if this was a Te thing, or more S trait in general.
It makes sense that it would be Te. It's very Te to go "Why are you SPECULATING when you could be GETTING THE JOB DONE???" I definitely do that.

But I don't think it's S if the only reason you get frustrated by it is because it's, as you said, "redundant", "obsessive" and "crazy". As an S, the words I would use would be "obnoxious", "pointless", and, depending on my mood, "full of sh*t".

But it makes sense that ESTJs would be a lot more annoyed by excessive hypotheticals than ENTJs would be.
 

milkyway2

New member
Joined
Dec 7, 2009
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INTP
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?
You sound like my boyfriend. He's an ESTJ and I'm INTP and he gets pissed off if we ever enter into theoretical conversations. Our ways of thinking about things really clash when that happens.
 
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