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  1. #1
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Default ENTJ's-running a business

    ENTJ's (INTJ's as well if you feel you have something to add),

    I'm interested in knowing how you believe that your top 2 functions help you in a scenario like this. Let's say, hypothetically, you have 6 months to a year to really get your stuff together and get a business up and going. And then, once it's up, you are obviously running it - owner/CEO.

    1. At the outset, how much time are you going to spend strategizing before you actually begin the implementation phase? (not in number of days, but as a percentage. 10% strategizing, 90% implementation; 50/50??)

    2. Specifically, how do Ni and Te aide you in getting it off the ground?

    3. How do Ni and Te aide you once it's up and running? (It's much more obvious to me how Te aids you, because I see that function in action in the real world every day, but I want to hear from you what role Ni plays in this, as specifically as possible).

    4. If you have "made up your mind" and are truly determined to make this thing work, is there virtually no doubt in your mind that this business will become a reality and a success? Or do you have some doubts as to whether or not it will work (is it more your determination or do you feel that it's more at the mercy of outside factors like the economy and such?)

    With my functions, Ti is all about coming up with a sound strategy. Market research, corporate structure, organizational charts, brainstorming what an average day might look like in this company, deciding what departments are necessary within the organization, laying out a timeline of how I see the organization developing, short-term goals, long-term goals, etc, etc. This, of course, is all "on paper". On paper, the organization can be laid out and ready to go. The next step, then, is using auxiliary Ne to implement it. Quite different than Te.

    While it feels natural to me to plan it all out on paper first, I sometimes wonder if that's a mistake and that I should begin to implement at the same time as the plan begins to develop, instead of waiting until I've got the perfect organization laid out on paper.

    I'd like to see how your process works. How do your functions help you to (a) get it up and going and, (b) continue to run it effectively while staying true to your vision?

  2. #2
    ThatGirl
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    I'd be confident that the business would succeed.

    As far as all the other stuff goes, it really depends on what sort of business it would be. Timing, demographic etc etc. I can't say I would use the same measurements for all scenarios.

  3. #3
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    I'd be confident that the business would succeed.

    As far as all the other stuff goes, it really depends on what sort of business it would be. Timing, demographic etc etc. I can't say I would use the same measurements for all scenarios.
    How is Ni an asset?

  4. #4
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    How is Ni an asset?
    Ni cuts through extremes. It will help the business grow. Take the risks with all possibilities of the situation at hand. Come up with a plan and a back up plan and a backup plan for that backup plan.

  5. #5
    ThatGirl
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    Knowing when to act, when to cut your losses. Knowing early on when something is heading for disaster, or instantly recognizing what is going to work. Ni helps to avoid wasting time, the consequence of being oblivious to what is going on around you.

    Ni helps you see what is coming as well as hypothesize the what ifs. Te helps you not lose sight of the goal through all that information.

  6. #6
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    How is Ni an asset?
    You're looking at it in a to me slightly odd perspective.
    You've got to see the whole picture here, not just little functions.
    Combine outside the box NT thinking and imagination with an organized and efficient way of going about things, a goal and a plan to achieve it, instead.

    EDIT: Speaking of goals... I just want to clarify. Js tend to show a lot more determination.
    Ps can show determination for sure, but it is usually in "have to" scenarios. A proverbial gun to the head, if you will.

    That's what ENTJs and INTJs do. Plan, do things efficiently, keep a respectable social facade no matter how odd thoughts and ideas that are popping up on the inside.
    NTPs mostly get stuck in the planning phase, trying to have all the information available before deciding anything at all.
    That's actually where Ni comes in, when I think about it.
    Ni people follow their guts more than Ne doms or tertiarys.
    Sometimes it is stupid, depends on if you have a good gut or not, basically.

    Js also tend to want to work hard, create order and efficiency. We also care much for appearance, which is something that is needed if your business has human customers.
    Few people likes "order in chaos". Most people, even P customers, likes a neat and tidy business where everything is in its place.

    I know there are going to be disagreeing posts from NTPs saying all sorts of things, but that NTJs are often found managing businesses in various positions is not a coincidence.
    For a P to do it well enough, they'd have to project and be something they're not which is draining like f*ck, or hire someone to do certain things for them.

    Personally, I think that Extroverted NTJs is the best bet for bosses that have anything to do with business as well as the military up to a certain level.
    Those really extroverted ENTJs with low N and strong emphasis on Se (seems quite common) aren't built for being heads of large organizations where they only interact with advisors and department heads.
    They're built to lead people where the people can see them and talk to them.
    INTJs are either built for menial labor, scholarly pursuits or being head of an organization where there is little human interaction.
    ENTPs and INTPs, according to my observations, have little in common when it comes to career besides science things.
    It seems like INTPs were clearly made for scholarly pursuits where they really can shine. INTP professors are not that uncommon... Like three out of four I have met during my studies have been clear INTPs.

    ENTPs share lots with the artistic SPs it seems. They always seem interested in doing the weirdest things, and many things at once.
    A perfect example is this ENTP I got to know the other day. He's sort of insane
    I mean, awesome. He's a stone cutter (from diamonds to granite), metal musician, psych ward employee, tattoo artist, painter/graphic designer and a journalist.
    Problem is just that, they have a hard time finishing things and tends to neglect things in order to do something else for a while.
    Kinda like Henry from the Eureka Series, also an awfully cool ENTP.
    Fact still remains, INTJs are usually the knowledge but lack the needed extroversion, thus seeing it fit to take an advisory role.
    ENTJs are the leaders, INTPs are best suited as specialists and ENTPs are the idea guys.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  7. #7
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Let's say, hypothetically, you have 6 months to a year to really get your stuff together and get a business up and going.

    The question is what does "get a business up and going" mean. If you're talking about generating any significant sales in that period of time, maybe the first thing I'd do is bring in an ESTP partner in crime. They would be a catalyst for action.

    1. At the outset, how much time are you going to spend strategizing before you actually begin the implementation phase? (not in number of days, but as a percentage. 10% strategizing, 90% implementation; 50/50??)

    Enough strategy to allow development of a business case and get funding probably. After that, it would likely be incremental. While I enjoy strategy much more than other things, it doesn't generate short term revenue (unless you're doing strategy consulting work or something like that).

    2. Specifically, how do Ni and Te aide you in getting it off the ground?

    Combined, they help you to establish the concept and set the direction in a fast and effective way, and maybe with hiring of people. Ni would be useful because it helps in navigating through ambiguity and absence of facts. It also might give you the ability to come up with a value proposition that's differentiated, solving some problem that others haven't thought of or in a different way.

    3. How do Ni and Te aide you once it's up and running? (It's much more obvious to me how Te aids you, because I see that function in action in the real world every day, but I want to hear from you what role Ni plays in this, as specifically as possible).

    You make me think too much. Agree Te would probably have the most immediate practical value on a day to day basis. Ni - I guess as a perceiving function would enable you to adapt and evolve the direction, again in the face of ambiguity. There are many other functions which are extremely important however.

    4. If you have "made up your mind" and are truly determined to make this thing work, is there virtually no doubt in your mind that this business will become a reality and a success? Or do you have some doubts as to whether or not it will work (is it more your determination or do you feel that it's more at the mercy of outside factors like the economy and such?)

    Since it is my nature to think in advance of the things that can go wrong,
    there would always be doubts and backup plans or contingencies.

    With my functions, Ti is all about coming up with a sound strategy. Market research, corporate structure, organizational charts, brainstorming what an average day might look like in this company, deciding what departments are necessary within the organization, laying out a timeline of how I see the organization developing, short-term goals, long-term goals, etc, etc. This, of course, is all "on paper". On paper, the organization can be laid out and ready to go. The next step, then, is using auxiliary Ne to implement it. Quite different than Te.

    While it feels natural to me to plan it all out on paper first, I sometimes wonder if that's a mistake and that I should begin to implement at the same time as the plan begins to develop, instead of waiting until I've got the perfect organization laid out on paper.


    Yes, you cannot wait until there are perfect plans. They will always change. The nature of an entrepreneurial venture is one of acting quickly and responding to change/stimuli. That doesn't mean that you don't have an overall strategy within which the tactics fall.

  8. #8
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander29 View Post
    Let's say, hypothetically, you have 6 months to a year to really get your stuff together and get a business up and going.

    The question is what does "get a business up and going" mean. If you're talking about generating any significant sales in that period of time, maybe the first thing I'd do is bring in an ESTP partner in crime. They would be a catalyst for action.

    1. At the outset, how much time are you going to spend strategizing before you actually begin the implementation phase? (not in number of days, but as a percentage. 10% strategizing, 90% implementation; 50/50??)

    Enough strategy to allow development of a business case and get funding probably. After that, it would likely be incremental. While I enjoy strategy much more than other things, it doesn't generate short term revenue (unless you're doing strategy consulting work or something like that).

    2. Specifically, how do Ni and Te aide you in getting it off the ground?

    Combined, they help you to establish the concept and set the direction in a fast and effective way, and maybe with hiring of people. Ni would be useful because it helps in navigating through ambiguity and absence of facts. It also might give you the ability to come up with a value proposition that's differentiated, solving some problem that others haven't thought of or in a different way.

    3. How do Ni and Te aide you once it's up and running? (It's much more obvious to me how Te aids you, because I see that function in action in the real world every day, but I want to hear from you what role Ni plays in this, as specifically as possible).

    You make me think too much. Agree Te would probably have the most immediate practical value on a day to day basis. Ni - I guess as a perceiving function would enable you to adapt and evolve the direction, again in the face of ambiguity. There are many other functions which are extremely important however.

    4. If you have "made up your mind" and are truly determined to make this thing work, is there virtually no doubt in your mind that this business will become a reality and a success? Or do you have some doubts as to whether or not it will work (is it more your determination or do you feel that it's more at the mercy of outside factors like the economy and such?)

    Since it is my nature to think in advance of the things that can go wrong,
    there would always be doubts and backup plans or contingencies.

    With my functions, Ti is all about coming up with a sound strategy. Market research, corporate structure, organizational charts, brainstorming what an average day might look like in this company, deciding what departments are necessary within the organization, laying out a timeline of how I see the organization developing, short-term goals, long-term goals, etc, etc. This, of course, is all "on paper". On paper, the organization can be laid out and ready to go. The next step, then, is using auxiliary Ne to implement it. Quite different than Te.

    While it feels natural to me to plan it all out on paper first, I sometimes wonder if that's a mistake and that I should begin to implement at the same time as the plan begins to develop, instead of waiting until I've got the perfect organization laid out on paper.


    Yes, you cannot wait until there are perfect plans. They will always change. The nature of an entrepreneurial venture is one of acting quickly and responding to change/stimuli. That doesn't mean that you don't have an overall strategy within which the tactics fall.
    Nice response. Didn't mean to make you think too much. The ENTJ's are the so-called "CEO's" and the ones I have known have fit this bill. So, this is why I was asking how Ni helps. And obviously INTJ's have Ni as a primary function. What you all seem to be saying is that it helps you navigate through murky waters, which is definitely important in a business venture. If I had to guess, I'd say that Ni probably also gives you "vision" (many CEO's are seen as "visionaries"). But, Ni is difficult for me to wrap my brain around. I can't seem to tangibly see how it helps you. I do understand it, but I also don't to a large degree. I believe that Ne provides vision as well, but it's vision of a different sort. Ti seems to be my "long-term" planner that has thought everything out (with contingencies), while Ne helps me make adjustments on the fly, on a moments notice, improvising whenever necessary. Ne also has navigation skills, but I'm having trouble understanding the difference between Ni and Ne navigation.

    Maybe Ni is more long-term, more focused, more likely to stay the original course? Someone on the forums recently said that Ni is more "up and down" navigation, while Ne is more "left to right" and that kind of resonated. Ne is short bursts, hopping around from here to there when necessary. That road is blocked? Not to worry, we'll improvise and find a detour. Whereas Ni has probably already "seen" or envisioned the detour and so there's less improvising. Hard to say, but I'm trying to understand how Ni provides vision to the CEO.

  9. #9
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    According to an assessment I took earlier today, apparently I use both Ni and Ne as well as Ti and Te fairly comfortably.

    A few notes from another thread on Ni/Ne:

    From Antisocialone

    Ni uses all the data you have gathered and tries to understand the whole context. Creation of x - development of x - current status of x - futher development of x - the end of x. Plus what are the chances that there will be another x.

    2.Ne and Ni are similar but Ne focuses on reality around the person while Ni is not even limited by that. So you can make connection that apsolutly make no sense. Plus you don't need environment to stimulate you that much.

    What made a number of problems for me in life.
    First I don't click with sensors while most intellectuals where I live seem to be NPs. Which often tend to think that I don't want to explore and that I am not interested in ideas. What is totally wrong. It is just that I don't need stimulation from environment. For example staring at white walls for an hour can be quite refreshing to me. Since the real perty will be hidden in my head and I have absoluty no need to verbalize my thinking. Probably I will not even share my conclussions.

    3. Si rellies on past experiances while Ni looks at the past present and future but its "thinking" is less grounded in details/hard fact. otes from another thread:

    My comments

    Good description. I think it maybe it is characterized by:

    - Synthesizing large amounts of disconnected information (big picture, details, past, present, potential future, etc.), looking at things holistically
    - A realization, or "aha" moment such as an idea occurring to you, an understanding, or you know the direction to go (or not to go)
    - There is a theme of changing the context in which things are looked at and viewing them through a different lens
    - You haven't analyzed all the options or scenarios in any coherent way; you just know; there is a level of certainty associated with it - it may be connected to a probability - but in either case, you feel compelled to act upon this understanding
    - A general difficulty in communicating to others or even understanding yourself as to how you got there

    Edit: the ideas or direction may not even be fully formed which makes it even harder to articulate yourself. I find that by writing things down, it helps to crystallize the thoughts, or if you talk through them with other trusted colleagues, you can sometimes get them better articulated.

  10. #10
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    I've had people guess I was ENTJ at work. I can get into an ENTJ mindset where I have a running start. Meaning I have a lot of background info on the industry or situation, and can be very clear, convincing, and decisive on what the company needs to do and how specific people can help. With the background info, I don't need to figure out possibilities or do ENTP-like exploration activities, already did that on another project.

    When I'm starting something unfamiliar though, I'm very ENTP, looking at possibilities, looking for connections between random bits of data. Going way off in random directions looking for those connections, even if no action or decision comes out of it. But once I make those connections and spot the trends, time for pondering is done.

    Another very important aspect of this is judging people, which is crucial to business success. People I don't know I'm open to seeing if we can work together. But I can soon figure out who to put in the nice-to-know pile and who goes into the good-to-work-with pile. I evaluate business proposals based on that in a very ENTJ sort of way, and can reach conclusions quickly depending on who will be involved. Gotten to a point where I can go into a meeting and figure out in minutes whether something will succeed, whether it will fail, or whether it can succeed only if I stay actively involved. People who know MBTI think I'm ENTJ because I make direct statements like "this is not going to work in the current setup", I rarely hold back.

    I do think ENTJs are more naturally persistent than ENTPs do, although we can learn that skill if we work at it. And no trait is more important to business success. ENTJs seem to be some of the most successful bloggers, because they post regularly and persistently, while we ENTPs can lose interest in the topic.

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