User Tag List

First 2345 Last

Results 31 to 40 of 42

  1. #31
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    xNFP
    Posts
    6,885

    Default

    Sounds like both of you are making completely unreasonable demands on each other.

    First, you. YOU WANT TO GO OUT EVERY NIGHT? Jesus.

    Look, I may be, you know, one of the most extraverted people on this forum, but LET ME TELL YOU: That would be wayyyy too much 'going out'. In addition, when I have a goal that is extremely important for me, I have a one-track mind. Time stops. My mind is totally focused on reaching the target, and to hell with any idiot who tries to distract me.

    This goal is so important to him that he's investing every bit of his strength into it. Why don't you just support the guy and say, "Hey, I'm here if you need me." It's better than trying to drag him kicking and screaming (figuratively speaking) into a world that doesn't fit his view. Honestly, if he's going out three times a month, he's probably making a HUGE EFFORT on his part to meet your needs. Ferk, I don't even go out to party three times a month. Hell, I probably party once or twice a year because I am extraverted in a VERY DIFFERENT way.

    If you were to expect me to go out every day or even every week, after a while, I'd get very, very, very, very, very, very, veryyyyyyyyyyyyy grumpy.

    Try to see it from his perspective. He's 'already failed' once. He cannot 'afford' to do it again. So he's investing all his energy into this. Support him.

    On the other hand, this dude is also going unnaturally ape-shit crazy. Okay, so you slept with one of his best friends. Not cool. But if you weren't dating, that's just collateral damage right? No risk, no fun. How could you know you'd end up dating one day? He needs to calm his butt down a bit and take the oak tree out of his rear end. And if he has no evidence that you cheated (although it is rather suspicious) he's jumping to conclusions, probably because he's stressed to hell.

    My suggestion: Let it rest. Wait until he's accepted into medical school - he'll be on a high, all happy with himself and in a super-great mood. THEN see what happens, and if things develop well, give it another shot.

    But if you push it and push it, the worst case scenario is: He will fail again and blame you, even if it's not your fault. Then, you're screwed in the long-run with this guy because he'll always have that nagging him, and he'll always project his failure onto you.

    So just be patient, and see what happens.
    If you are interested in language, words, linguistics, or foreign languages, check out my blog and read, post, and/or share.

  2. #32
    Junior Member megm87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Posts
    26

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Heart&Brain View Post
    Please don't take responsibility for how his feelings are playing games with him. You should not be catering to the illusionary part of his fears by constantly trying to 'prove' yourself as if you were on trial.
    I really need to listen to this in particular, he has a bad way of 'testing' people to 'truly see how they are.' It's like a science experiment for him, his subject (friend, family member, or me) is 'tested' in different scenarios so that he can see how they react. For instance, say a comment he doesn't really mean but wants to see if I will provide outcome A, B, C or even maybe unknown. In this way he feels that he can truly get to know me without worrying about my feelings clouding his judgement (as far as he knows it is truly unbiased because I [or whoever is involved] do not realize I am being 'tested' and my true colors will show through whether they be good or bad. The problem is after I realized (and he'd admitted) that he implements this as a tactic of sorts in relationships there's no way my reactions would be unbiased and I was constantly wondering 'is this another test?' I discussed this with him on the phone yesterday (I finally stuck up for myself about things that had been bothering me after discussing the issues he had with me - something he has been urging my conflict-phobic self to do) and told him that he cannot do this anymore. Not only does it not even work now that I am aware of it (if it even did to begin with) but people are not lab rats and you should just ask them if you're worried or curious about something (even if it means getting in a sticky emotional conversation ).

    I do also need to be more mature myself and share my social life openly with him instead of worrying about the possible confrontation or being afraid that it will encourage his fears - I know that he is level headed enough (even if not right at the moment) to know that I am completely faithful and simply just a social creature who needs to see her friends now and again, and if I would have never made the mistake of keeping things in my social life from him he probably would be much closer to being his usual understanding, rational self.

    And you right, fear can do crazy things to people-I know it has to me before!

  3. #33
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    MBTI
    infj
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    2,460

    Default

    the problem with testing is that there's never enough. you're never getting what you want. you're always just avoiding what you're afraid of. and the testing sets a positive goal for the worst case scenario. this is why it's counterphobic. there's a great discussion of this in many a kundera book (ie the farewell party).

  4. #34
    Junior Member megm87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Posts
    26

    Default

    Little Linguist, you are right I should not be trying to drag him out to parties and what not. I didn't mean that by what I said, though (sorry it was worded poorly.) I meant that he needs to re-craft his own personal social identity because right now he has syphoned what used to be bounced off of his many friends in college all onto me. He used to go out fairly often of his own accord ( I knew him as an acquaintance before we dated) and was very happy. I'm not saying he should go back to that same person or that exact same lifestyle - he was different then and in a completely different scenario (in college and in a fraternity.)

    An example would be after he moved back home (post grad school awaiting med school interviews which is currently what he's doing) one of his best friends from highschool (also an INTJ he has told me) also ended up back in our home town. He has tried time and time again to contact my boyfriend to catch up and maybe just hang out, see a movie, play video games, etc. and not only has my boyfriend not taken him up on his offer but he has not even responded. I realize this is because he is unhappy with the stage in life he is at right now (not already in medical school like his 'plan' for himself) and is embarrassed that he was not accepted last year in his first round applying and doesn't wish to share this with his friend whom he respects. That being said I really think that reconnecting with such a close, trusted friend (who as equally as socially undemanding) who understands him so well in a such a bad time in his life would be one of the best things for him. Getting another opinion or being able to talk about the things going on with him with even one person other than me and maybe his mom seems like it would be good. This is all I would like him to do (and would never force him in any way - don't worry I know better haha), not go out all hours of the night or go to crazy parties. If he wanted to I'd be all for it, but only if he wanted to. Even I myself would rather hang out with a few close friends than go to some big party.

    Another example is that his best friend from college who is now married to another girl we knew has been trying to get us to come visit them (they have a guest room we could stay in so it's very convenient and they only live about 2 hours away) and my boyfriend keeps putting it off. Like he'll agree that we should go in the next month and then whenever I try and bring it up he is like 'mmmm not this weekend.' Now by saying I bring it up I don't mean I press the issue every single weekend, I mean that after I know that my boyfriend has actively talked to his friend about visiting sometime in the future every now in then (every 5-6 weeks-ish) I will say something about it. Mostly, if nothing else, because it is rude from my point of view to tell someone you would like to come visit them in their new house and then never follow up. Especially because his friend (who is actually our mutual friend, but obviously much closer to my INTJ) is an ESFP (wife is ENTJ) and I know that it would hurt his feelings. But my INTJ is like 'well maybe that's just another friendship I should just let go.' I'm afraid he is saying this not because he is truly done with the friendship (this ESFP has done nothing to wrong my boyfriend and has always been there for him) but because he is just actively shutting people out right now in his unhappy state. I'm sorry that what I said about wanting him to go out more wasn't explained better, and I do need to realize a little more internally just how unsocial of a creature he really is or has become now that he is out of college.
    Last edited by megm87; 02-03-2010 at 02:03 PM. Reason: grammar

  5. #35
    Black Magic Buzzard Kra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    912

    Default

    I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this (cause I'm too lazy to read the rest after that OP), but it doesn't seem like it's a lost cause just yet.

    The following is incredibly presumptuous, and should be taken as such.

    Personally, I would have wrote you off already if I were him (and had the same issues that he had with the happenings that you mentioned). If he's anything like me, the fact that he hasn't stonewalled you yet means that there's something holding him to you.

    Though you should be upfront with him, especially when dealing with other guys (even more so since you know it bothers him), he's being unreasonably paranoid due to things that preceded his involvement with you. Yeah feelings might get hurt by finding out something like that, but sometimes an INTJ has to let their Te backhand some sense into their Fi to keep it from ruining everything.
    Function Activity:
    Ni > Te > Ti = Fi > Ne > Si = Fe > Se

  6. #36
    Junior Member megm87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Posts
    26

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    you're probably used to him being the emotional rock in the relationship. This time, it's his turn to be emo. Be his rock. Be emotionally dependable and stable. It's exhausting, but worth it

    So, so true. Thank you for that nice insight, Amargith. I had not thought of it that way at all

  7. #37
    Junior Member megm87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Posts
    26

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kra View Post
    Personally, I would have wrote you off already if I were him. If he's anything like me, the fact that he hasn't stonewalled you yet means that there's something holding him to you.
    I had a feeling of this too, but wasn't sure if it was my undying optimism . I, too expected him to write me off as soon as we had finished the initial discussion and was very suprised to find that he was still trying to contact me after. This indeed is what gave me the hint that our relationship could possibly be salvaged.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kra View Post
    Yeah feelings might get hurt by finding out something like that, but sometimes an INTJ has to let their Te backhand some sense into their Fi to keep it from ruining everything.
    Touche, very good point. I hope that now that things have settled down somewhat on the emotional front (after our conversation we had last night) that he will finish working through this stuff and utilize his Te just so. Thank you for reading my post and commenting

  8. #38
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    4,318

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Heart&Brain View Post
    I agree with Amargith that patience and understanding and reaffirmation is the way to go. But it's a way to go out of LOVE. Not out of a screwed up sense of guilt and blame.

    He is accusing you of something you have not done and he ignores new information. (How would INTJs react to false accusations? And further: how would INTJs react to not being heard or believed when they explain how the accusation is false? Seriously, how long would you repeat loving apologies and explanations that are ignored before you'd do the doorslam?)

    So I tend to disagree with the rather draconic judgmental INTJ-remarks above, and want to say that HE makes some mistakes: [...]
    He is making mistakes. State lays out the origin of it above, I think.

    Perception.

    Interestingly, IT'S EMO! Crazy perception being driven by destabilised emo. And what's destabilised it? Not just Meg. He's got the life-plan going to hell, he's living back at home, he doesn't see his girlfriend much, and she's weird about truth. Which one of these is the more pressing? Who knows, but the stress and distress of all the other stuff is adding itself into a greater fixity of decision, making much less flexibility... the martyring thing.

    Yeah, sure, he should be more flexible. The intemperate demand that everything get back on track right now is exhausting and unrealistic. What'll snap him out of it is either the hard sad lesson that takes a long time to learn, that breaking up is hard to do, or something successful. Some actual break that stops this perception loop. A job, a new school, a different life plan... something that works. The emo's driving this show, not the thinking, but the thinking gets back into front seat IF SOMETHING STARTS WORKING. Something. Anything.

    So, the inflexibility is real, it's a strength turned inward, and intellectually he could give it up easily. But if the people around him are teaching him that everything works better IF HE DOES NOT RELY ON THEM...

    Yeah, so... emo extremes. INTJs go way out of whack on those things. And this guy sounds a bit odd anyway. Vis:

    Quote Originally Posted by megm87 View Post
    I really need to listen to this in particular, he has a bad way of 'testing' people to 'truly see how they are.' It's like a science experiment for him, his subject (friend, family member, or me) is 'tested' in different scenarios so that he can see how they react. For instance, say a comment he doesn't really mean but wants to see if I will provide outcome A, B, C or even maybe unknown. In this way he feels that he can truly get to know me without worrying about my feelings clouding his judgement (as far as he knows it is truly unbiased because I [or whoever is involved] do not realize I am being 'tested' and my true colors will show through whether they be good or bad. The problem is after I realized (and he'd admitted) that he implements this as a tactic of sorts in relationships there's no way my reactions would be unbiased and I was constantly wondering 'is this another test?' I discussed this with him on the phone yesterday (I finally stuck up for myself about things that had been bothering me after discussing the issues he had with me - something he has been urging my conflict-phobic self to do) and told him that he cannot do this anymore. Not only does it not even work now that I am aware of it (if it even did to begin with) but people are not lab rats and you should just ask them if you're worried or curious about something (even if it means getting in a sticky emotional conversation ).
    Yeah, that's weird. He needs to stop doing that or you need to start calling him ENTP.

    Seriously, there's an INTJ out there who doesn't go out, doesn't look up old friends, gets super down on himself about missing opportunities, and still has time to screw with people?

    Does he have values of his own? Is he aware of his own values? The isolationist nature implied by testing people suggests (quite weakly tho) that he doesn't know yet too much about what he values.

    What are his values?

    (A question like this puts thinking back on track. Nutcase emo is all well and good, but going nuclear in a teacup is pointless, embarrassing even, if it doesn't go somewhere true. So, what are his values?)
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  9. #39
    Senior Member burymecloser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Posts
    514

    Default

    Heart&Brain, you make some very valid points, but the issue is this: only one of them wants to end the relationship right now, and it's him. No one is saying this guy is blameless, but right now, if the relationship is going to be repaired, she's the one who has to do it. He broke up with her. If she wants to re-evaluate her feelings about whether she wants to be with this guy, that might not be a bad idea. But casting blame towards him or making demands of him would be really counterproductive at this point.

    Meg, it sounds like you recognize this. He has done things wrong, and you've been a saint to get through all of them with what sounds like a minimum of anger. But right now there's nothing to be gained by pointing out his shortcomings or trying to get an apology out of him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heart&Brain View Post
    So I tend to disagree with the rather draconic judgmental INTJ-remarks above, and want to say that HE makes some mistakes:

    - He, not you, is making the false assumption that you've cheated on him which isn't true. An INTJ doesn't like to be mistaken about truth, right? Then he should stop it already.

    - But instead he makes the additional mistake of not correcting the first mistake, when presented with reality = your explanations, love and apologies for attempting to hide the visit to your platonic friend.
    (I do hope you have explained why you were hiding the visit: namely that you fear he's not able to deal with the facts. More on this below!)

    - He is questioning your fundamental integrity to yourself and commitment to him. Which to me and other authenticity-seeking ENFPs is quite an insult if I do everything to stay true to both. Such insults can be said in a moment of fear and weakness, they can be countered with reassurance and then forgiven. But he must really do his bit and stop repeating the insult in a reality-resistant loop. It seems like he doesn't care about what you say. Which is again an insult, but can be worked through.
    Every INTJ who has posted in this thread has said something about how devastating it is for us to be lied to, how damaging it is to the trust in a relationship. Your instinct as an F may be to forgive or to grant the benefit of the doubt. Ours is skepticism and punishment. I do believe Meg, but you've got to understand why he doesn't. It's just her word, and she has already lied about this subject. There's no proof to support her, and there is a very logical reason for him not to believe her.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heart&Brain View Post
    How would INTJs react to false accusations?
    Logically. If someone said out of the blue that I had cheated simply because I spent time with someone else, I would react angrily. If I had spent time with someone else and then lied about it, I would understand why they had drawn the conclusion they had and empathize. I would place the blame on myself (for lying, not for going out) and work to remedy the situation. He has a legitimate basis for his accusation; it's not sheer paranoia. It sounds like Meg is doing this the best way possible right now, and (completely counter to what I wrote in my first post to this thread :redface really understanding things from his point of view.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heart&Brain View Post
    Thus the trust-issues cut both ways:
    He'll have to find out if you can be trusted not to cheat by letting you out to socialise without control and accusations.
    You'll have to find out if he can be trusted to deal with his feelings by letting him in on your social life without omissions and 'protection'. Meaning that you have to work with conflict avoidance yourself, dare insist on your judgment of what kinds of social freedom is fair and why you need it, and give him a chance to grow with the challenge.
    This is right, but... for a little while, she needs to play the game his way. There's a delicate balance in play. She musn't let a pattern develop in which she doesn't go out or ignores her extravert needs; it would be very unhealthy for him to grow to expect that. But right now, temporarily, she's trying to win back his trust, and this isn't the right time to push him or test boundaries.

  10. #40
    Junior Member megm87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Posts
    26

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    The intemperate demand that everything get back on track right now is exhausting and unrealistic. What'll snap him out of it is either the hard sad lesson that takes a long time to learn, that breaking up is hard to do, or something successful. Some actual break that stops this perception loop. A job, a new school, a different life plan... something that works. The emo's driving this show, not the thinking, but the thinking gets back into front seat IF SOMETHING STARTS WORKING. Something. Anything.
    So true, I really hope that something starts working for him soon-he more than deserves it to! I should try to make sure that I am not another stress in his life but something safe he can come to when everything else is stormy. I feel like this was almost (ironically) the reason I didn't tell him about hanging out with my friend, I feel like he already had so much going on that not only would he irrationally get very upset (my instinct: yikes possible confrontation-run!) but then get more stressed. I now realize (and honestly deep down did then but my fear of confrontation overrode my intuition) that by not telling him it in the end created more stress than telling him upfront ever would have . I just need to work on my fear of confrontation because while we were discussing this he kept reiterating the fact that very little 'confrontation' will come from just admitting something/telling him up front (especially something as non-threatening as hanging out with a platonic friend he has even met before.) I just get so scared when confrontation is looming! ...time to get over it though haha

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 22
    Last Post: 08-18-2014, 09:19 PM
  2. [INTJ] INTJ's and disregard for authority
    By Cindy in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 08-27-2012, 08:42 PM
  3. [INTJ] Need help from INTJ guys
    By Cality in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 06-16-2008, 01:14 PM
  4. [ENFP] A female ENFP, an atheist, and a part-time misanthrope...
    By SillySapienne in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 41
    Last Post: 01-18-2008, 01:28 AM
  5. [INTJ] Help with INTJs
    By Xander in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 41
    Last Post: 11-17-2007, 12:36 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO