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  1. #31
    null Jonny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    Cutting corners doesn't matter so long as the job gets done.

    Good grief, even an INFP can work in menial jobs and get by when forced to do so. I imagine the INTP at the lower scale find their place too.
    So what you are saying is that you would find no difference between an INTP and ISTJ janitor, in terms of quality of work? I could believe that, although I'm prone to thinking that an ISTJ would do a better job, and at the very least take a bit more pride in his work, maybe be a bit nicer to those around him.

    In any event this is an aside from the original topic.

    Edit: Yes, all other things being equal, I think a nice person is of more value to society than a mean person.
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    So what you are saying is that you would find no difference between an INTP and ISTJ janitor, in terms of quality of work? I could believe that, although I'm prone to thinking that an ISTJ would do a better job, and at the very least take a bit more pride in his work, maybe be a bit nicer to those around him.

    In any event this is an aside from the original topic.

    Edit: Yes, all other things being equal, I think a nice person is of more value to society than a mean person.
    But you are going by the measure of who does a better job has more worth to society, so what does niceness or pride have to do with anything? As long as the grime gets cleaned up adequately, what does anything else matter in the case of a janitor?

    But why would an ISTJ be nicer than a INTP on the job?

  3. #33
    null Jonny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    But you are going by the measure of who does a better job has more worth to society, so what does niceness or pride have to do with anything? As long as the grime gets cleaned up adequately, what does anything else matter in the case of a janitor?

    But why would an ISTJ be nicer than a INTP on the job?
    I'm talking about the whole deal here. A person's entire value, on the job and off. Verbal abuse or rudeness or indifference < Kindness IMO. As far as a janitor is concerned, I really couldn't say with any degree of certainty that an ISTJ would make a better janitor than an INTP, so I really can't give you any evidence.

    As to the second question, perhaps I spoke too soon. I consider myself a very nice INTP so I really couldn't say who would be nicer.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    So are you saying that for all 16 types the graphs have zero slope, indicated no correlation between intelligence and worth for any one type? Are you saying that the graph of intelligence and worth would be the same for each one of the 16 types? I'm not dissing anything you say, just looking for your opinion on the question that I asked.
    There is a potential for correlation, but you must define Type (as it relates to IQ, I assume) and 'worth' very stringently. Perhaps a different, less value-loaded word than 'worth' would be a better choice?
    A person with high 'worth' in the arts will have lower economic value, depending on how you define value, for instance. Van Gogh made shit for money in his life, but what is his w.t.s? Some would put it much higher than say, Sam Walton, although clearly S.W. has had a large economic impact, and was therefore of value. So how do you define and calculate worth?

  5. #35
    Head Pigeon Mad Hatter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    perhaps I didn't give enough examples.
    Could be. I just thought that since there was an obvious pattern, you were defining "worth" along these lines.

    I am not asking is Te better than Ti, not in the least. I am asking how much any one type's intelligence affects his/her "worth."
    Having more worth = better, so to me it's just about phrasing it differently.
    I mean, first of all, what are you referring to when you say "worth"? Also, since you wrote his/her worth, are you talking about being seen as worthy, or self-worth?
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  6. #36
    null Jonny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    There is a potential for correlation, but you must define Type (as it relates to IQ, I assume) and 'worth' very stringently. Perhaps a different, less value-loaded word than 'worth' would be a better choice?
    A person with high 'worth' in the arts will have lower economic value, depending on how you define value, for instance. Van Gogh made shit for money in his life, but what is his w.t.s? Some would put it much higher than say, Sam Walton, although clearly S.W. has had a large economic impact, and was therefore of value. So how do you define and calculate worth?
    Hmmm, well I'm speaking of the betterment of life for others. Sometimes this can correlate with economic value, but not always. It can be in the creation of art, the making of movies, or the curing of polio. Think macro though, not micro. I understand that each individual will assign different values to things, I am speaking of entire populations here.
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avis View Post
    Also, since you wrote his/her worth, are you talking about being seen as worthy, or self-worth?
    Perhaps a bit of subjective discovery will lend me a hand. Let us take a journey through your mind, shall we?

    Imagine there exists a person who affects your life. Imagine that this person has made your life better (made it easier, made you happier, got you laid, etc... whatever you as an individual would consider a positive impact). This person would have positive worth. Now imagine that there exists millions of these people in your life, and you were to attempt to arrange them according to your willingness to have them never exist; i.e. have them never have affected you in a positive way. Now, imagine that everyone that you arranged does the same thing for everyone else, including you. Now imagine that each person who was arranged had all his/her "worth" summed up. Does this make sense?
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  8. #38
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    I've taken a few philosophy courses, and observed INTPs who were really into the subject (like lifetime passion status). I found that there ideas were a bit convoluted, but then again, I could have been the convoluted one. Either way, there is at least one stupid/misguided INTP out there... ;-D
    (massive generalization ahead)

    I think that INTJs, in general, are better at:

    explaining complex ideas in an easy to understand way

    but I think INTPs:

    actually understand the concepts more thoroughly

    I don't doubt at all that there are stupid INTPs out there. I do doubt, however, that they spend a significant amount of time thinking about mathematics and philosophy.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

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    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    (massive generalization ahead)

    I think that INTJs, in general, are better at:

    explaining complex ideas in an easy to understand way

    but I think INTPs:

    actually understand the concepts more thoroughly

    I don't doubt at all that there are stupid INTPs out there. I do doubt, however, that they spend a significant amount of time thinking about mathematics and philosophy.
    I cannot speak to your generalization, as I have not been looking for evidence that supports or refutes it. As to the bold portion, I would agree with you that there probably aren't many stupid INTPs who think very much about philosophy.

    Do you think that a stupid INTP is worth as much as a stupid ISTJ? ESTJ? ENTJ? etc.

    For that matter, what do you think the intelligence vs. worth graph for each of the types look like? Would any be logarithmic? Linear? Parabolic? Some combination? Elliptical perhaps? Discontinuous?
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    I've met plenty of bright NT's who are fairly worthless when it comes to contributing to society. I believe that EQ is more often the limiting factor for NT's rather than IQ. A lot of NT's carry themselves like they're better than everyone else, and that really limits their ability to contribute to society.
    I was framing my answer in the context of the OP. I agree that, for some NTs, their societal contributions would be greater with improved EQ, but EQ isnt a measure on the standard IQ test.

    Although, maybe we could create a rent an NF business for those NTs who want to improve their EQ score.

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