User Tag List

First 12345 Last

Results 21 to 30 of 58

  1. #21
    morose bourgeoisie
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    3,859

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    Of course worth is a relative term, but for the purposes of this discussion let us take worth to mean one's worth to society with regard to the betterment of life quality for all members of said society (technological, logistical, etc.) So a janitor would be worth something because s/he betters our living environment; an inventor would be worth something because s/he can come up with things to make our lives easier; a farmer would be worth something because he provides food to the masses.

    My question is this:
    Imagine if the worth of each of the 16 types were represented in 16 graphs as functions of their raw intelligence (we're not considering any other factor here). What would the graphs for each of the types look like? Which type's level of worth is affected most by his/her level of intelligence.

    Ex. - I'd imagine that an INTP of below average intelligence would be worth much less than an ISTJ of similar intelligence. The INTP graph might start out pretty low, but once a certain level of intelligence were reached the INTP would become quite a bit more useful to society.
    Sounds like eugenics to me.

  2. #22
    null Jonny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    MBTI
    FREE
    Posts
    2,486

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    Sounds like eugenics to me.
    The discussion of worth vs. intelligence? Oh, you're a J... of course you'd have to immediately draw conclusions and seek action from a friendly discussion about correlations. ;-D

    So ESTJ, how much do you think the worth of your type is affected by the intelligence of your type? Remember to consider worth as I have framed it in my OP (Not that I consider that to be the ultimate worth, but in order to have a coherent discussion the topic must be clearly defined).

    __________________________________________________

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    I don't understand the purpose of this thread.

    Maybe that means I'm a unintelligent NT, and hence totally worthless?
    Who knows?
    Purpose? To amuse me and anyone else who wishes to post here.


    __________________________________________________

    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Could be worth less. Intelligence is one of the INTPs key assets. It would be like having a lazy ISTJ... what good is that going to do anyone?

    But at the same time, for every 4 ISTJs there are in the population, there is only 1 INTP. So even a below average intelligence INTP might be worth more. Supply and demand.
    So you're judging the worth of a nature resource by its scarcity? Perhaps, if there were a sufficient demand for what INTPs offered.

    __________________________________________________

    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    Have you actually encountered one of these? That's like saying a weak person who spends all day working out.
    I've taken a few philosophy courses, and observed INTPs who were really into the subject (like lifetime passion status). I found that there ideas were a bit convoluted, but then again, I could have been the convoluted one. Either way, there is at least one stupid/misguided INTP out there... ;-D

    __________________________________________________

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    I've met plenty of bright NT's who are fairly worthless when it comes to contributing to society. I believe that EQ is more often the limiting factor for NT's rather than IQ. A lot of NT's carry themselves like they're better than everyone else, and that really limits their ability to contribute to society.
    I could see EQ being a factor, but this is a discussion about the entire populations of each of the particular types, and how intelligence vs. worth would be represented on a graph. For the purposes of this discussion we would take all members of each type population without regard to any other factors. If I were going to attempt a scientific study, I would probably attempt to eliminate other major contributing factors from my data-pool, but this is purely conjecture.

    Let me ask you this question: EQ being equal among a population of NTs, what would their intelligence vs. worth graph look like?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  3. #23
    Head Pigeon Mad Hatter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    -1w sp/sx
    Socionics
    IOU Ni
    Posts
    1,028

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    So a janitor would be worth something because s/he betters our living environment; an inventor would be worth something because s/he can come up with things to make our lives easier; a farmer would be worth something because he provides food to the masses.
    All of the things you've mentioned as examples of "worth" concerning ISTJs are external objects with some sort of positive attribute (i.e. a value judgment) attached to them. In other words: Extraverted Judging.
    ISTJs have Te, INTPs have Ti, a form of Introverted Judging. The "worth" you are speaking basically means "useful", i.e. directed at the affecting the environment in a positive way.
    The answer to your question is already determined by the way you have set your premise. If being useful in the sense mentioned above is what you consider "worthy", then of course Te comes off as more useful. Your question is basically "Is Te better at Te than Ti".
    IN SERIO FATVITAS.

    -τὸ γὰρ γράμμα ἀποκτέννει, τὸ δὲ πνεῦμα ζῳοποιεῖ-

  4. #24
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    7,917

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    So you're judging the worth of a nature resource by its scarcity? Perhaps, if there were a sufficient demand for what INTPs offered.
    The US is really falling behind in science and math. We need INTPs now more than ever.

    We're like rare albino tigers.

  5. #25
    morose bourgeoisie
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    3,859

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    The discussion of worth vs. intelligence? Oh, you're a J... of course you'd have to immediately draw conclusions and seek action from a friendly discussion about correlations. ;-D

    So ESTJ, how much do you think the worth of your type is affected by the intelligence of your type? Remember to consider worth as I have framed it in my OP (Not that I consider that to be the ultimate worth, but in order to have a coherent discussion the topic must be clearly defined).
    _______________________________________________
    I would say that using intelligence as a measure means you would use IQ as a proxy for it? But IQ is a potential, and plenty of intelligent folks don't do much that utilizes that potential, and I don't think 'worth to society' based one projection will be accurate.
    Also, I think 'worth of type' is a poor metric construct, since it cannot be measured in any concrete way, regardless of what you postulate as the statistical propensity for IQ vis-a-vis type. Perhaps you could if everyone took a standardized test, but most don't so the data is suspect from the beginning.
    The reason I said it sounds like eugenics is that, how do you determine the w.t.s. of a person with mental illness? They may have an enormous IQ, but that potential is locked away. Having no demonstrable worth sounds like grounds for euthanasia, which is the endgame of eugenics. See: Nazi Germany, et alia.

  6. #26
    heart on fire
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    8,457

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    Ex. - I'd imagine that an INTP of below average intelligence would be worth much less than an ISTJ of similar intelligence. The INTP graph might start out pretty low, but once a certain level of intelligence were reached the INTP would become quite a bit more useful to society.
    Dumb INTP can't get jobs as a janitors?

    What about janitor's assistant?

  7. #27
    null Jonny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    MBTI
    FREE
    Posts
    2,486

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Avis View Post
    All of the things you've mentioned as examples of "worth" concerning ISTJs are external objects with some sort of positive attribute (i.e. a value judgment) attached to them. In other words: Extraverted Judging.
    ISTJs have Te, INTPs have Ti, a form of Introverted Judging. The "worth" you are speaking basically means "useful", i.e. directed at the affecting the environment in a positive way.
    The answer to your question is already determined by the way you have set your premise. If being useful in the sense mentioned above is what you consider "worthy", then of course Te comes off as more useful. Your question is basically "Is Te better at Te than Ti".
    An INTP philosopher who spreads a knowledge that brings peace and happiness to others is very much useful in my opinion; perhaps I didn't give enough examples. I like to think of our minds as a kind of environment for our consciousness; and those individuals who seek to better the environment of the mind are performing basically the same function as the others who seek to better our external environment.

    I am not asking is Te better than Ti, not in the least. I am asking how much any one type's intelligence affects his/her "worth."

    As to your part about an answer being already determined by the question and the premise, well, conceptually this is always true. If there is to be a single ideal answer to any one question, then that answer technically already exists as part of the question. The fun is in the discovery, eh? Perhaps you meant that the answer to my question is readily apparent? If so, perhaps you could give a quick description of each one of the 16 graphs, or at the very least, the 4 quadrants (NT,NF,SJ,SP).

    Thanks
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  8. #28
    null Jonny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    MBTI
    FREE
    Posts
    2,486

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    Dumb INTP can't get jobs as a janitors?

    What about janitor's assistant?
    They very well could, but would they be as productive a janitor as a similarly intelligent ISTJ? Would they be prone to cutting corners?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  9. #29
    heart on fire
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    8,457

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    They very well could, but would they be as productive a janitor as a similarly intelligent ISTJ? Would they be prone to cutting corners?
    Cutting corners doesn't matter so long as the job gets done.

    Good grief, even an INFP can work in menial jobs and get by when forced to do so. I imagine the INTP at the lower scale find their place too.

  10. #30
    null Jonny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    MBTI
    FREE
    Posts
    2,486

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    I would say that using intelligence as a measure means you would use IQ as a proxy for it? But IQ is a potential, and plenty of intelligent folks don't do much that utilizes that potential, and I don't think 'worth to society' based one projection will be accurate.
    Also, I think 'worth of type' is a poor metric construct, since it cannot be measured in any concrete way, regardless of what you postulate as the statistical propensity for IQ vis-a-vis type. Perhaps you could if everyone took a standardized test, but most don't so the data is suspect from the beginning.
    The reason I said it sounds like eugenics is that, how do you determine the w.t.s. of a person with mental illness? They may have an enormous IQ, but that potential is locked away. Having no demonstrable worth sounds like grounds for euthanasia, which is the endgame of eugenics. See: Nazi Germany, et alia.
    So are you saying that for all 16 types the graphs have zero slope, indicated no correlation between intelligence and worth for any one type? Are you saying that the graph of intelligence and worth would be the same for each one of the 16 types? I'm not dissing anything you say, just looking for your opinion on the question that I asked.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

Similar Threads

  1. [Other] INTP vs. ENTP - Interpersonal Intelligence
    By MadTeaParty in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 43
    Last Post: 09-22-2015, 12:59 AM
  2. Evolution vs. Intelligent Design/Creationism
    By Anentropic IxTx in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 161
    Last Post: 11-10-2013, 11:56 PM
  3. Intelligence vs Ability
    By Quinlan in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 04-21-2010, 12:07 AM
  4. Darwinism vs. Intelligent Design - good take on this issue
    By Sniffles in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 124
    Last Post: 12-15-2009, 07:20 AM
  5. S intelligence vs. N intelligence
    By Xander in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 173
    Last Post: 08-31-2008, 06:25 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO