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[NT] INTP vs INTJ - who is more manipulative?

Kalach

Filthy Apes!
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Bullying is manipulation?

INTJs will overtly limit the number of options available to others in the environment, and will be snappish--perhaps even bullying--about it.

It's called being directive, bitches.

It could conceivably be called manipulation in that there's a message of do it my way or I don't like you any more. Find an INTJ who uses that message directly to get results and you'll have yourself a manipulative INTJ.

But otherwise, aren't we mostly too lacking in enthusiasm for the process to keep up screwing with people for too long? Chart the Course, bitches. We're more likely to actually tell you we're manipulating you.
 

Thalassa

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That's what I thought but could never be sure on J/P. She ultimately tested as ENFP and I think it's probably right.

I'm ENFP and I could be really bossy when I was little. Never forget that ENFPs have tertiary Te, folks.
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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Good point. Until I came onto this forum, I was not too well versed in the introverted vs. extraverted functions. I sort of lumped them together. I'm still learning this.

It's pretty intersting stuff. I haven't read Jung yet. That's next on my list.
 

Kalach

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What an INTJ will do is look for emo. That damned tertiary Fi will reach out to people and say, love me, tell me about values, let's be friends and care about things I say together, oh and, do things my way too *eyelash flutter*.

It ain't pretty, but there it is.



Yeah, really raising the bar on what counts as manipulative here. Lock up your daughters and hide your wallets, the INTJs are in town.
 

SolitaryWalker

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It's pretty intersting stuff. I haven't read Jung yet. That's next on my list.

If you haven't you shouldn't be commenting on typology, just as you shouldn't be commenting on Christian theology if you've never read the New Testament.

P.S this message is addressed to all other proud and thoughtless practitioners of folk typology, not just aprhodite gone awry!
 

simulatedworld

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Conveniently, disagreeing with lolitary walker on any typological concepts tends to get people labeled "folk typologists." :laugh:
 

entropie

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If you haven't you shouldn't be commenting on typology, just as you shouldn't be commenting on Christian theology if you've never read the New Testament.

P.S this message is addressed to all other proud and thoughtless practitioners of folk typology, not just aprhodite gone awry!

Damnit, 8 k posts for Uranus :doh:
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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If you haven't you shouldn't be commenting on typology, just as you shouldn't be commenting on Christian theology if you've never read the New Testament.

P.S this message is addressed to all other proud and thoughtless practitioners of folk typology, not just aprhodite gone awry!


:laugh: I know, SW, how dare I try and converse with great minds like yours with anything less than an extensive classical education, whilst pursuing my PhD?

I quite realize I need to fill in gaps of my missing knowledge. Hell, what I've learned has definitely been very folksy; stuff I've read from Keirsey, Briggs, Myers, Berens, Nardi, Hartzler, and Thompson; and astute minds on Type C. My model for learning does tend to follow a more rebellious approach, and one not necessarily prescribed by the masses, or traditional education; I prefer to get enough knowledge to stimulate and educate my mind just enought to let it wander where it will for a while. Then after a while, if it's something I'm very interested in, I will go back and refine my own theories by looking to others with more knowledge of said subject. I've found that suits my Ni the best. If I inundate it with others' theories, no matter how 'great' the others are considered, I might not end up with my own original ideas, or I might end up influenced by others' ideas; and that is uh, anathema [ :) ] to my master Ni.

Perhaps you would require that I add a disclaimer to my signature so that others might not be misled by my ignorance as I tout my limited knowledge about Le Forum................

Btw, I was very impressed by your Ni stuff. I spent at least an hour reading it, and read it over a couple times. I found it very enlightening, but like Cascade, didn't totally resonate with some of the Se stuff. Thanks for calling my attention to it.
 

Litvyak

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If you haven't you shouldn't be commenting on typology, just as you shouldn't be commenting on Christian theology if you've never read the New Testament.

P.S this message is addressed to all other proud and thoughtless practitioners of folk typology, not just aprhodite gone awry!

If I read Lacan's works, I won't have the slightest clue about his theories.
If I read interpretations of Lacan's works, I start to understand th fundaments of his concept.

I disagree with your logic.
 

tcda

psicobolche
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^^^Anyone could say that about Lacan though. :tongue: Seeing as he is ludicrously jargon filled and post-modernist.
 

SolitaryWalker

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:laugh: I know, SW, how dare I try and converse with great minds like yours with anything less than an extensive classical education, whilst pursuing my PhD?

I quite realize I need to fill in gaps of my missing knowledge. Hell, what I've learned has definitely been very folksy; stuff I've read from Keirsey, Briggs, Myers, Berens, Nardi, Hartzler, and Thompson; and astute minds on Type C. My model for learning does tend to follow a more rebellious approach, and one not necessarily prescribed by the masses, or traditional education; I prefer to get enough knowledge to stimulate and educate my mind just enought to let it wander where it will for a while. Then after a while, if it's something I'm very interested in, I will go back and refine my own theories by looking to others with more knowledge of said subject. I've found that suits my Ni the best. If I inundate it with others' theories, no matter how 'great' the others are considered, I might not end up with my own original ideas, or I might end up influenced by others' ideas; and that is uh, anathema [ :) ] to my master Ni.

Perhaps you would require that I add a disclaimer to my signature so that others might not be mislead by my ignorance as I tout my limited knowledge about Le Forum................

Btw, I was very impressed by your Ni stuff. I spent at least an hour reading it, and read it over a couple times. I found it very enlightening, but like Cascade, didn't totally resonate with some of the Se stuff. Thanks for calling my attention to it.


What are you pursuing your PhD in?

If I read Lacan's works, I won't have the slightest clue about his theories.
If I read interpretations of Lacan's works, I start to understand th fundaments of his concept.

I disagree with your logic.

In that case perhaps my views require a revision. At least you ought to read the second hand interpretation of Jung to comment on typology or the second hand interpretation of the New Testament to comment on Christian theology. However, the impudent folk theorists did not provide anything resembling an interpretation of the Jungian theory, they simply twisted them around to create a simple, easy to use personality system that the common people can enjoy.
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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What are you pursuing your PhD in?

Haha. That caught your attention, did it? No, no, no. You read me wrong, I was being facetious. I am currently spending the bulk of my time homeschooing my children and taking care of my family; although I might pursue it someday, most likely in public health in some capacity, although anthropology and the study of human relationship has always fascinated me. However, I think overall I'm leaning away from the idea of 'higher' institutionalized education, just as I've already spurned the idea of traditional governmental primary and secondary education; because I think that less specialization, and more diversity in education, is probably more prudent for the future of our country.
 

simulatedworld

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If I read Lacan's works, I won't have the slightest clue about his theories.
If I read interpretations of Lacan's works, I start to understand th fundaments of his concept.

I disagree with your logic.

Why, that's because you're a folk typologist, of course!

Only real typologists like lolitary walker have genuine science to back up their pop psychology claims. :doh:
 

simulatedworld

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I don't make pop psychology claims on here, nor even psychology claims.

Well, at least we can agree that typology is unscientific and purely a form of philosophy. Half the people here are still hung up on looking for scientific proof of a system that doesn't even purport to be scientific. :shock:
 

tcda

psicobolche
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^^^philosophy can and should be scientific.

also re the other points raised prior to the interjections about Jung, folskiness and philosophy: if I'm both bullying and self-victimizing does that make me the master debater manipulator? :D or just a twat?
 

simulatedworld

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^^^philosophy can and should be scientific.

also re the other points raised prior to the interjections about Jung, folskiness and philosophy: if I'm both bullying and self-victimizing does that make me the master debater manipulator? :D or just a twat?

Science requires empirically verifiable standards, which neither typology nor philosophy has. There is no biological proof that Jung's functional concepts accurately represent the functions of the human brain; they are merely arbitrary categorizations based on his observations of human behavior.

Since there is no way to test or verify one's psychological type empirically, it cannot be scientific.
 

tcda

psicobolche
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yeah I don't really know how to express it, as I will make any number of semantic errors.

I'm not a "scientist" but I know that it's at least not accepted by all scientists, that "science=empiricism". I mean I know Marxist scientists who believe strongly in dialectical materialism (there's a good book called The Dialectical Biologst by two, umm, biologists, called Richard Levins and Richard Lewontin).

I don't think anyone has a monopoly on the term "scientific" and find it hard to accept that, the observance of tendencies whcih you support with empirical evidence, and then making hypotheses based on them, can't be called "scientific". Would you say Freud was "unscientific" for example?

But, I digress. And from my own thread no less.
 
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