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  1. #101
    You're fired. Lol. Antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curzon View Post
    Dear child,

    On this particular post I am pointing out to you by asking you a question that there is a difference between ego and narcissism.



    In this particular post you are telling me there is NO difference by asking me where I see the difference between ego and narcissism.

    --------------------------------

    WTF?

    Oh, I was asking where YOUR idea of the difference came in. That came out a little wrong, I mean to express that...actually, I have no idea

    I am not being very articulate, sorry. What is the difference that the two have in manipulating, I guess.
    Excuse me, but does this smell like chloroform to you?

    Always reserve the right to become smarter at a future point in time, for only a fool limits themselves to all they knew in the past. -Alex

  2. #102
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    The problem with your remark and his is that typology as conceived of by Jung is a study of the human mind or people's cognitive habits. These matters aren't easily researchable empirically because people's behavior does not indicate the nature of their mind-states with sufficient precision. An equation of behavior with mind-states has long been regarded as untenable by all academic disciplines with the minor exception of some spurious sub-disciplines in psychology.

    Until neuroscience is able to precisely identify the nature of our cognitive states and their neural causes, we will not be able to employ an empirical approach in the study of typology. Since that is the case, a scientific inquiry into the subject or psychological and sociological cannot be acceptable. This result leaves us with no choice but to embrace the philosophical method of inquiry.
    Don't ruin my fun with your Extraverted Thinking stance!
    Hello

  3. #103
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curzon View Post
    Ps - Are you an android?
    Are you an idiot?

    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    Don't ruin my fun with your Extraverted Thinking stance!
    What do you understand for Extroverted Thinking to be?
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  4. #104
    Riva
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    Are you an idiot?


    Quote Originally Posted by Curzon View Post
    But I like to imagine you as Data from Star trek.

    Ps - Are you an android?
    Lore not Data.

  5. #105
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Can attempts to troll SW go in another thread, please?
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  6. #106
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    What do you understand for Extroverted Thinking to be?
    Well, your insistence on empirical evidence - in order to "legitimize" the functions in the eyes of others rather than just your own - sounds like Extraverted Thinking to me. To demonstrate it with causal rationality that everyone can agree on, so long as they just look at the evidence and follow the steps. I'm not saying that's somehow bad, by the way, I was just making a joke.
    Hello

  7. #107
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    Well, your insistence on empirical evidence - in order to "legitimize" the functions in the eyes of others rather than just your own - sounds like Extraverted Thinking to me. To demonstrate it with causal rationality that everyone can agree on, so long as they just look at the evidence and follow the steps. I'm not saying that's somehow bad, by the way, I was just making a joke.
    This goes back to the discussion we had before. I don't see how that contradicts with the definitions I've read of Ti. It just seems an arbitrary dividing line. surely someone who works in the way describedby the Ti descriptions, would do what you described as well. At least that's my experience.

    another thing is that we shouldn't confuse peoples understandings of science and philosophy with personalty type, surely? I know empiricist INTP's and metaphysical INTJ's for example.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  8. #108
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    INTPs are more socially adaptable and keen, but they usually just don't give a fuck about using manipulation. INTJs go to bed praying every night for the powers of manipulation (yes, their belief in God hinges only on that one wish) but they're socially blind and unperceptive fools who can never get passed Phase 1 of their plan.

  9. #109
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    This goes back to the discussion we had before. I don't see how that contradicts with the definitions I've read of Ti. It just seems an arbitrary dividing line. surely someone who works in the way describedby the Ti descriptions, would do what you described as well. At least that's my experience.
    Ti is more gestalt -it's an individualistic, holistic understanding of the variables present in any situation. It therefore feels like you're being guided by an internal barometer (which is why it often gets confused with Fi), allowing your outer behaviour to react perceptually and make things up as you go. Therefore it doesn't necessarily require empirical evidence - just a sense of logical coherence and How Things Work.

    Te isn't just about empirical evidence, but it is about outward, rational behaviour - planning your behaviour in steps, ensuring that decisions and relationships are based on what can be trusted to happen, and ensuring a predictable and measurable outcome. Because you're expecting a measurable and predictable outcome, you would often rely upon empirical evidence to ensure that it will happen.

    Of course, Ti types can choose to gather empirical evidence to legitimize their thoughts - something which, I think, is motivated by Extraverted Feeling more than Extraverted Thinking itself - and Te types can choose to understanding things for themselves, something which I think is motivated by Introverted Feeling rather than Introverted Thinking.
    Hello

  10. #110

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    Ti/Ne and Ni/Te are both capable of manipulation; it really depends on the effectiveness of the individual.

    I know several INTJs and INTPs in real life, and all the INTPs are far better at "manipulation" (I'd rather call it political savvy) than the INTJs. The INTJs I know TRY to manipulate people and scenarios to suit their needs, but it's painfully obvious and seldom effective. The INTPs on the other hand tend to quietly always get their way through subtler means.

    Then and again, to be fair, the INTPs I know are older and more matured than the INTJs, who are mostly still struggling to come into their own. I would say it boils down to having an acute understanding of other people's motivations, wants and needs- I think Ti/Ne is better suited to it than Ni/Te, but I'm biased being Ne/Ti myself. Go figure.

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