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Thread: NTPs: Leaders?

  1. #31
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgtmac_46 View Post
    Caesar was an ESTP.........as was Patton........likely Rommel as well......Eisenhower was an ENTJ.......and clearly Napoleon......ENTJ's are good at organization, good at strategic planning, therefore, decent at conventional warfare.

    Alexander the Great was clearly an ENTP.
    Wait, what? Caesar ESTP?
    I can agree on Patton. But seriously, where the hell did you find that piece of information?
    Nothing in his way of being except maybe the tales of his sexual escapades radiate any STP.
    There is no man, woman, animal or inanimate object that I have read so much about and of than Gaius Julius Caesar.
    I love ESTPs, but he was not one. Read Commentarii de Bello Gallico and at least some of his correspondence.
    An easy way to do that without going to Rome is to read Colleen McCullough's "Masters of Rome" series.
    It is highly historically accurate, and the letters - which are frequent - are translations of real correspondence.

    Just a suggestion. The guy reeks of ENTJ more than anyone. Napoleon was weakly ENTJ in comparison.

    Alexander the Great could indeed have been an ENTP, but he could have been a pink, dancing banana trombone with unicorn stew as well.
    Written sources from that time period are hardly reliable as he is almost a legend.
    Do you know he was also "shining" and sort of superhuman in all of his endeavors etc yadayadayada?
    Clear case of emperor altering history. He obviously had very competent personnel at his disposal, as well as incredibly good advisors.
    Well, maybe not Hephaistos and his drinking/fuckbuddies by and large...
    But... I can't remember the name of that brilliant military engineer... Hmmph.
    Anyway. The best a surprise conquering of the Greek peninsula, mercenaries and conquered cultures could muster.
    He could have been anything. He was probably something, though...
    But if anything, he was a figurehead. One with an understanding of tactics and strategy...
    But that little extra probably came from his unique mix of specialists.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    Wait, what? Caesar ESTP?
    I can agree on Patton. But seriously, where the hell did you find that piece of information?
    Nothing in his way of being except maybe the tales of his sexual escapades radiate any STP.
    There is no man, woman, animal or inanimate object that I have read so much about and of than Gaius Julius Caesar.
    I love ESTPs, but he was not one. Read Commentarii de Bello Gallico and at least some of his correspondence.
    An easy way to do that without going to Rome is to read Colleen McCullough's "Masters of Rome" series.
    It is highly historically accurate, and the letters - which are frequent - are translations of real correspondence.

    Just a suggestion. The guy reeks of ENTJ more than anyone. Napoleon was weakly ENTJ in comparison.

    Alexander the Great could indeed have been an ENTP, but he could have been a pink, dancing banana trombone with unicorn stew as well.
    Written sources from that time period are hardly reliable as he is almost a legend.
    Do you know he was also "shining" and sort of superhuman in all of his endeavors etc yadayadayada?
    Clear case of emperor altering history. He obviously had very competent personnel at his disposal, as well as incredibly good advisors.
    Well, maybe not Hephaistos and his drinking/fuckbuddies by and large...
    But... I can't remember the name of that brilliant military engineer... Hmmph.
    Anyway. The best a surprise conquering of the Greek peninsula, mercenaries and conquered cultures could muster.
    He could have been anything. He was probably something, though...
    But if anything, he was a figurehead. One with an understanding of tactics and strategy...
    But that little extra probably came from his unique mix of specialists.
    I have no intention of feeding an INTJ on a rant, arguing over Caesar and Alexander is hardly even relevant to the discussion. As for the notion of type bias, it's far more prevalent with NTJ types claiming every successful battlefield commander is an NTJ than anyone else claiming so.

    The bottom line is that ENTJ's make decent strategic commanders, far less competent tactical commanders, and when it comes to unconventional warfare, fairly incompetent ones.

    A more modern example (and hence one with more ACTUAL documentation, versus mythological) would be the grandfather of Modern Unconventional Warfare, Otto Skorzeny, who was CLEARLY NOT an ENTJ or an INTJ.............most likely an ENTP or ESTP, but much points to an ENTP.

    Skorzeny played havok during the Battle of the Bulge, with a couple dozen SS Commandos, by running around in American uniforms, and actually forced Eisenhower in to hiding for several weeks out of fear of a rumor he was coming to assassinate him in Paris.

    Now, ultimately this did nothing to turn the tide of the war, but Skorzeny wasn't in charge of the war, only the operations that he, most often, brought off in spectacular and highly creative fashion, with far fewer men and equipment than anyone would have thought possible.
    No friend ever served me, and no enemy ever wronged me, whom I have not repaid in full." Lucius Cornelius Sulla

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew_Z View Post
    The days of foot soldiers going commando are coming to a close. Say hello to precision.
    Actually, you've got it pretty well damn backwards. How have those precision guided munitions been going to win the 'WOT'? Yeah, you can kill the two terrorists hole up in the backroom, but you also kill the family of 7 living in the front room........which in turn creates 100 more terrorists.

    And therein lies the issue of conventional conflict..........overwhelming firepower does win in a conflict between massed armies..........that's why you aren't seeing as many conflicts between massed armies.

    Oh, and even those precision guided munitions? Were pointed toward their target by a highly trained SP 'commando' on the ground.

    Here's a pop quiz..........how do you disable a $100 Million Dollar F-22 with a $100.00 gun?
    No friend ever served me, and no enemy ever wronged me, whom I have not repaid in full." Lucius Cornelius Sulla

  4. #34
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    Mao Tze Tung... J.
    And there we have the inventors of modern guerilla warfare.

    No, I do not buy it.
    '

    Where do you get that from? Do you want to debate about Mao here?

    Quote Originally Posted by sgtmac_46
    it's far more prevalent with NTJ types claiming every successful battlefield commander is an NTJ than anyone else claiming so.
    I entirely agree.

    And I am pretty sure Rommel is a P also.
    The fear of poverty turns people into slaves of money.

    "In this Caesar there are many Mariuses"~Sulla

    Conquer your inner demons first before you conquer the world.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgtmac_46 View Post
    Here's a pop quiz..........how do you disable a $100 Million Dollar F-22 with a $100.00 gun?
    Attack its weak point for massive damage.

  6. #36
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    Post edited by Cloud.
    Last edited by yenom; 02-04-2010 at 09:16 PM.
    The fear of poverty turns people into slaves of money.

    "In this Caesar there are many Mariuses"~Sulla

    Conquer your inner demons first before you conquer the world.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloud View Post
    Jesus, you are seriously an idiot. I suggest you go read some history before arguing and posting crap in this forum.

    As I recall you are a boderline J. A borderline J is not exactly a pure J.

    Ever since when has Te is equated with military competence?
    Warfare is always about adapting to changes in the battlefield (a P trait), rather than following some stupid rigid plan and discipline.


    Even Napoleon is a borderline J.
    When you make statements like the bolded you are forgetting about Ni's influence on Te. We may not appear as though we are adapting but that is because we have already foreseen most scenarios.

  8. #38
    . Blank's Avatar
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    Get off of the stereotype bandwagons already, people. "P" doesn't automatically mean "more creative," or "more adaptable." "J" doesn't automatically mean "tightwad that can't make a change."

    Here are some fun facts:
    Not every thinker is smart. Many thinkers can feel quite strongly.
    Not every feeler is caring. Many feelers can think quite deeply.
    Ti = 19 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Te = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ne = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fi = 15 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Si = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ni = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Se = 11[][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fe = 0

    -----------------
    Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
    Man got to sit and wonder why, why, why;
    Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
    Man got to tell himself he understand

  9. #39
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    "Mao Tze Tung... J.
    And there we have the inventors of modern guerilla warfare."


    I do suspect thr Scots were indulging in gerilla warfar LONG before that, and I'm sure they weren't the only ones.

  10. #40
    Ruler of the Stars Asterion's Avatar
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    ENTPs are more likely to promote equality.

    I don't know about other NTPs, but I lead through the use of information. The one that has the most information is the one that calls the shots. Though that probably paves the way for disputes. So I guess I'd prefer a workplace full of informative types, rather than directive types. It just feels good when you realize that the workers are totally willing to be there and get the job done their own way.
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