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[NT] I have an idea - I am mistyped

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,769
The reason why I am placing this here is because of personal stuff. Plus this thread is not just about me.


I would like to ask other forum members to give me the reasons why I can't be a ENTJ by their opinion. (or why I can be)


Recently I have done alot of deep soulsearching and I have realzed why I am what I am. However I would like opinions of others before I give my explanation why I am eNTJ. (but I could be wrong about this whole thing, especially since I could be iNTJ )


Also I am curious if other expressed NTJs came to conclusion that E/I thing does not work well in their case ?
 

Shaunward

New member
Joined
Jan 24, 2010
Messages
297
I always thought myself to be introverted. My bluntness can often turn people away. My arrogance, in my mind, places me above others. I feel generally unsympathetic toward how people feel.

That being said, every test I take labels me an extrovert. I enjoy attention, and discussion. No concept concerns me more than complete isolation and solitude. I find trouble focusing when I'm by myself. I feel generally unenergetic when left to myself. When I discuss with others, when I collaborate, when I [strike]teach[/strike]pontificate, I get a rush of energy. My mind works faster and better with the pressure of discussing with another person. I've always been one that performs best under pressure. Talking with other people gives me a rush of importance, which gives me a rush of energy. In the spotlight, I feel enthused and energetic. I feel alive.

In recent months I find myself increasingly more isolated in my personal life. At this time, I have no friends that live nearby. I don't know how to meet people - they've always just been there. I wonder if this points to me being an introvert. I don't know. I do miss having a social life. It's an almost crippling experience and I wonder if I may be losing my mind.
 

Eruca

78% me
Joined
Nov 14, 2008
Messages
939
MBTI Type
INxx
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
The reason why I am placing this here is because of personal stuff. Plus this thread is not just about me.


I would like to ask other forum members to give me the reasons why I can't be a ENTJ by their opinion. (or why I can be)


Recently I have done alot of deep soulsearching and I have realzed why I am what I am. However I would like opinions of others before I give my explanation why I am eNTJ. (but I could be wrong about this whole thing, especially since I could be iNTJ )


Also I am curious if other expressed NTJs came to conclusion that E/I thing does not work well in their case ?

Antisocial one your name is Antisocial one. I do not think you are an E.

I always thought myself to be introverted. My bluntness can often turn people away. My arrogance, in my mind, places me above others. I feel generally unsympathetic toward how people feel.

That being said, every test I take labels me an extrovert. I enjoy attention, and discussion. No concept concerns me more than complete isolation and solitude. I find trouble focusing when I'm by myself. I feel generally unenergetic when left to myself. When I discuss with others, when I collaborate, when I [strike]teach[/strike]pontificate, I get a rush of energy. My mind works faster and better with the pressure of discussing with another person. I've always been one that performs best under pressure. Talking with other people gives me a rush of importance, which gives me a rush of energy. In the spotlight, I feel enthused and energetic. I feel alive.

In recent months I find myself increasingly more isolated in my personal life. At this time, I have no friends that live nearby. I don't know how to meet people - they've always just been there. I wonder if this points to me being an introvert. I don't know. I do miss having a social life. It's an almost crippling experience and I wonder if I may be losing my mind.

Introverts gain energy from being alone.
Extroverts gain energy from being with other people.

This doesnt mean an introvert has bad social skills, or that an extrovert will have lots of friends. The difference between them is needs, not capability, although an extrovert's need for social interaction might drive them into becoming better at said interaction.

Just ask yourself this. If you have just come home after a tiring day at work, what would better rejuvenate you, going out with friends or staying home in some introverted activity?
 

Shaunward

New member
Joined
Jan 24, 2010
Messages
297
Just ask yourself this. If you have just come home after a tiring day at work, what would better rejuvenate you, going out with friends or staying home in some introverted activity?
Staying at home and chatting to friends online. In pyjamas.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,769
Ok since feedback is small I will explain my claim.

I know that it is long but I had to make a case. (actually I have even droped some things out)




There is a old question how to define extroversion in the first place.
If extroversion is only about people than I am introvert. But if it is also about the environment in general my type can become a little bit blurred.


Also I think I have found a little hole in MBTI. Which is that it presumes that you are living in normal and stabile western society.


My parents were rising me in a way that the first time I actually needed to socialize is at the age of 5 (before that I was almost completely cut of from other children) So when I have came in kindergarten at the age of 5 I simply did not know what to do there. (what means that I have started my life with developed emotinal self-sufficienty)

But after that I turned E. I could socialize every day with other childen for 6+ hours and do that every day. (and I really liked it)
I mean this lasted for years this was not just a short period.


However the love for people started to wane with time since most of them were too random and even too friendly for me. At home I had the same problem.

The people who rised me for the most part were my eNFP mother ISFP father and ESFJ grandmother. However they never aprroved my Te and everything that stands behind this function.
There were even cases when I got "accused" that my room is too clean or they where unhapply because I took garbage out (sounds unbelieveable but it is true)
This is because they were one of those people what the packages in which the food was bought can be useful. Plus they totally lacked structure.
I mean my father managed to late for hour and a half on his own wedding.
(if the story is true)


On the other hand I had that self-suficinecy in my background.
So what I did ? I turned to video strategy games to get the sense of controle that I need so much as child. What boosted my NTJ side into extreme and since my Te was never that liked I turned to my a auxiliary and already learned self-suficinecy. I have tryed to change my parents by "forcing" structure on them but nothing happened. So over the years I bacame a crackpot that can stand on its own because of its experinces and NTJness.


Take a look at my functions.



Cognitive Process Level of Development (Preference, Skill and Frequency of Use)
extraverted Sensing (Se) ********************* (21.1)
limited use
introverted Sensing (Si) ************ (12.3)
unused
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ************************************ (36.5)
excellent use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) *************************************************** (51.7)
excellent use
extraverted Thinking (Te) ************************************************* (49)
excellent use
introverted Thinking (Ti)***************************************** (41.6)
excellent use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) ********* (9)
unused
introverted Feeling (Fi) ****************** (18)
limited use


Te and Ni are so close that it is totally subjective which one is actually stronger. On the other hand the first time I took the test I came out as a ENTJ and couple of other times I got Te stronger than Ni but I was still INTJ.
But on all tests my Se was stronger than Fi (on every single one)
What I think it could be a sign that I have runned away from Te since Ni gave better results and more comfort.
(btw I think that my Ne and Ti are weaker but since I am very strong NT they are probably shown as stronger than they probably are)



I mean I have very little balance in my current personality and I can defend with facts what tests are showing. (I know that 100% stand for 80 % actually)

Example


Your Type is
INTJ
Introverted Intuitive Thinking Judging
Strength of the preferences %
100 100 100 89

However if you twist some questions.
Like


1.You change parties with meetings.
2.You don't like to pick up your phone. But that is because in most of my cases on the other side are people that are doing market research or my 80 year old neighbour just want to say that she is out of electrisity and she wonders do I know why is that (and stuff like this)

3.Or you just don't like fluff enought to talk to the most people but you can talk for a long time about more serious stuff.
4.You don't like to go to the parties because the atmosphere is too SP for you. So you vote for "the book" that has intelectual charm to it.

Etc.


I get.

Your Type is
ENTJ
Extraverted Intuitive Thinking Judging
Strength of the preferences %
33 100 100 89


Since I have started to work on my social skills recently I have realized that in some elements I am too natural. For example I can take 3 hour phone call with with out too much problem. Also the forum members that had those 15+ hour PMing parties with me will know that I am hard to tire through "conversation" sometimes.


My whole life I have serious issues with my environment/society is it too random or it is orgenized just for the sake of being organized.
This is huge argument so I will skip it for now, However it is very important one since my NTJ part simply can't support most of things that are going on around me. While if i open my mouoth about it I will probably come as a asshole or smartass. (So I don't do this anymore that much)


For example my Te is often useless in my education since the exact times of exams it is impossibel to know. It happened to me that my exam was postponed 3 times. Or they gave have two dates from which one was false but since the professor went on a trip there was no one there to say that one is false. Or they claim there will not be a verbal examination for months but the day before you should pick up your grade the guy sends you a e-mail that you have verbal examination tomorrow.
I mean each of this cases in enough to destroy a plan so I tend not to make so strict plans as I would otherwise.



So over the years I got a little bit schozoid and detached since I can't freely talk about what is on my mind. If my NTJ part is strong as the tests say that is an excelent explanation what I don't click with people. I simply offer too little fluff/Fe to click enough with them to be close with them. What is reasonable since towards the book Fe is the last function of ENTJs (even if they are Es)


This could also explain why I don't relate to tertiary Fi. I simply don't have one. I have inferior Fi. What could explain well why I never got into Manga, movies, comic books or art that much. (and I had a number opportunities)


Also I have realaized that I am probaly enneagram 8 instead of 5. I have always condidered that I am too intellectual for an 8 so I didn't pay that much attention to that type. Untill I came across a discription of 8 on this site. My detachment is not like 5. Instead it is just a manifestation of the desire of 8s not to be controled and it is keeping of the distance from what I percive as nonsense. (that is present all over a society)
Also this can explain why I don't fit so well into science actually.


What also makes sense if you consider that I can come as creepy to other people. I mean aloof 8 is probably the first that will look like that.

Which is because my extroversion is simply disabled by a large number of factors. Since I have to overuse Ni to prevent myself from going insane.
What prevented me from having fun in a typical ENTJ ways.
Also as I have started to "lose" introversion lately nad I argue with people more than I used to. While I tryied to avoid this before.


For example the reason why I have opened the thread about how introverts feel drained is because I don't feel this that much. Instead I will probably just dislike the activity they like.
What could be a sign of repressed/long lost extroversion.
(we can settle down this on vent)



I mean for the years I have functioned as a INTJ. However when I search my feelings I am not sure that I am one.


So is it reasonable to question if I could be a ENTJ (eNTJ to be exact) that went very wrong in some aspects of life ?
Or my NTJ side is just overpowering my introversion ?
 

Matthew_Z

That chalkboard guy
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
1,256
MBTI Type
xxxx
Type tests are virtually useless when you've taken them multiple times and can essentially predict their results.

Anyways, I don't find your "naturally sociable" examples convincing. I've created and held multi-hour chats over a variety of chat servers. I've had some long phone call as well, although the loud ringing noise created by the phone is the bane of my sanity. Actual conversations are fine, though. And while I can say both of the above honestly, I'm still an introvert.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,769
Type tests are virtually useless when you've taken them multiple times and can essentially predict their results.

Anyways, I don't find your "naturally sociable" examples convincing. I've created and held multi-hour chats over a variety of chat servers. I've had some long phone call as well, although the loud ringing noise created by the phone is the bane of my sanity. Actual conversations are fine, though. And while I can say both of the above honestly, I'm still an introvert.

Well I think similary. That is why I have made ending I did.
However I wanted to throw this theory out.
 

Matthew_Z

That chalkboard guy
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
1,256
MBTI Type
xxxx
There's a popular extension of MBTI that relates to Occam's Razor:

An ENTJ that generally leads with Ni and acts highly introverted for most of life is an INTJ.
 

Moiety

New member
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
5,996
MBTI Type
ISFJ
Well, whatever you are, your posts are definitely very much more Ni-flavored than they are Te-flavored, I think. That might point to ENTJ, actually if you take the "auxiliary evangelization" thing....but I dunno...

You generally seem more chill than most ENTJs though.

What are your favorite pastimes and/or activities in general?


Just ask yourself this. If you have just come home after a tiring day at work, what would better rejuvenate you, going out with friends or staying home in some introverted activity?

After a tiring day, nothings is more satisfying that playing videogames till your eyes pop out. Or go online and spread PC chaos upon TypoC...or whatever else.

Are those introverted activities? Nope. Well it depends on your definition. I guess what I'm saying is that it's all about external stimuli... nothing to do with people at all.


ENs are more likely to appear I too.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,769
Well, whatever you are, your posts are definitely very much more Ni-flavored than they are Te-flavored, I think. That might point to ENTJ, actually if you take the "auxiliary evangelization" thing....but I dunno...

You generally seem more chill than most ENTJs though.

What are your favorite pastimes and/or activities in general?

Well the thing is that I am INTJ in every way now but what I am wondering about is it possible that this wasn't my first/natural type ?


I don't believe in this theory myself but In some ways it makes sense. (to me)
Probably my NTJ part is just overpowering my introversion.
 

Matthew_Z

That chalkboard guy
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
1,256
MBTI Type
xxxx
If you're entertaining that you are naturally some other type, why not ENTP? ENTPs are N-leading. Some proponents of the idea of shadows and shadow function have proposed that INTJ is the shadow of ENTP. Given that you did have something of a scarred childhood and feel that you may have changed over time, it's a reasonable conclusion that this may be indicative of an ENTP --> INTJ switch.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,769
If you're entertaining that you are naturally some other type, why not ENTP? ENTPs are N-leading. Some proponents of the idea of shadows and shadow function have proposed that INTJ is the shadow of ENTP. Given that you did have something of a scarred childhood and feel that you may have changed over time, it's a reasonable conclusion that this may be indicative of an ENTP --> INTJ switch.

I don't think so since I am too calculating for a P (since ever)

I am completely sure that I am NTJ. Also I am sure that I am introvert.
However I am not sure that I have always been an introvert.


Btw I doubt that ENTP would retreat from his family because they were too random for him.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,769
A P is by definition not calculating?

No the can calculate. However I doubt that a P would force planning and structure on his parents for years. Plus I was PMing with a number of Ps on this site and there were very obvious differences between us in P/J area.





You do not seem like an extravert in the least.

I know.

But there is something you don't know.


(I will explain when I have the time)
 

tcda

psicobolche
Joined
Nov 17, 2009
Messages
1,292
MBTI Type
intp
Enneagram
5
maybe you're just pretty even on the E/I axis? Does it really matter which side of the line? Surely it's a difference of degree rather than of kind (unless we get into all the somewhat mystical sounding obsessions about "function order" which while very interesting, I ultimately find to have little application in reality).

I had a lot of doubt about my MBTI, and then I realized, that ultimately it was just insecurity due to my life circumstance that was driving me to seek some kind of "answer" in MBTI. But really the answer is in looking at your own strenghts and weaknesses broadly . For example I'm good at arguing a point, at imagination and grasping concepts, and I'm bad at being sensitive. Whether it's "Ni" or "ne", or "Ti" or "Te", who gives a fuck? They are differences of degree not of kind as I said, if you look at the descriptions, we all do all those things and they overlap.

In your case if you have strong intuition and thinking, why is it so important to know which one is "dominant". XNTJ seems like a fine description, you're neither a withdrawn stereotype, nor some cavalier person with no ability for reserve and introspection. Drawing some line at the 50% point which then supposedly predefines a whole load of other shit, seems unnecessarry.

I hope that offered some help anyway. If it didn't, I ask to be excused, it was meant in a helpful spirit. :)
 

jenocyde

half mystic, half skeksis
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
6,387
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w8
It's always hard to tell E/I for me, especially if the person leads with any perceiving function or an introverted judging one (if you believe in function order). It's also hard to tell without meeting the person.

People, including myself, always say that extroversion has nothing to do with people but with external stimuli, but it's hard for me to imagine even introverts not using external stimuli. Everything comes from external stimuli. So who knows?

I usually tell the difference between ENTJ and INTJ on their personality, if it reminds me of someone I know. It's not foolproof, but it works out for the most part. So considering that, I can see you as an ENTJ based on the types of threads you start (that have to deal with excessive classification). However I've always thought of you as more of an INTJ because I see a lot of Ni, and you are less forceful in the way you communicate. So without meeting you in person, it's almost impossible for me to tell, but I'm guessing INTJ.
 

Kra

Black Magic Buzzard
Joined
Jun 24, 2009
Messages
912
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
4w5
Perhaps looking at the tertiary and inferior functions of E/INTJ could impart some clarity.

What do you feel you are weakest in? Se (INTJ) or Fi(ENTJ)?
 
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