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  1. #1
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    Thumbs down I was wrong ! (maybe)

    Just spent about 4 hours debating with my esfj flatmate about something work related. I had a statement, he disagreed with it. I'm coming from a purely theoretical angle as usual and he's coming from his own existential angle as per. I know he's coming at me from the wrong direction anyway but he eventually stumbled onto a statement/example that I had no reply for. It completely through a spanner in my works. I think I might just be tired but he might have a valid point which would mean my starting statement was wrong :steam:

    This has happened before a few times. It's an annoyance...

    Why the fuck are we INTJs so confident all the time? Why was I so sure that I didn't see there might be a chink in my argument? What is it in my brain that made me bore straight through 100% and not leave a little wiggle room for adjustment?

    I'm a bit mentally drained and my emotions got the better of me tonight (bastard esfj is good at that) but I guess I want to hear peoples theories of why INTJ are considered the most confident type.

    ps I'm tired and don't know how this post has come across, please feel free to flame me if I anger you, I need a good slap at the moment I feel

  2. #2
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Interpretation. There aren't many arguements that are not flawed. And everything is refutable if you try hard enough.

    Also, confidence isn't type related. Everytype has confident people and inconfident people. Being confident merely means that you enjoy relying on your dominant functions. But as you have realized, Te can be flawed too.

    Ultimatly. The truth of the matter is probably that the ESFJ was so annoyed with you he tried to look for an excuse to refute you and accidentally found it. You don't argue for 4 hours if you can solve it in a second with a single arguement. Unless you were not aware of that arguement up until four hours in. He was bluffing. :P
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  3. #3
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    This happened to me a number times. I usually just let them wait and let myself go through all possible loopholes of their argument and give them their answer a bit later but by then they are out of the argumentative mood... so I get quite annoyed when this happens.

  4. #4
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6.4 View Post
    which would mean my starting statement was wrong :steam:

    shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, or they will take your INTJ badge of you....

    Why not say sorry too (which proves you will never be male)

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6.4 View Post
    Just spent about 4 hours debating with my esfj flatmate about something work related. I had a statement, he disagreed with it. I'm coming from a purely theoretical angle as usual and he's coming from his own existential angle as per. I know he's coming at me from the wrong direction anyway but he eventually stumbled onto a statement/example that I had no reply for. It completely through a spanner in my works. I think I might just be tired but he might have a valid point which would mean my starting statement was wrong :steam:

    This has happened before a few times. It's an annoyance...

    Why the fuck are we INTJs so confident all the time? Why was I so sure that I didn't see there might be a chink in my argument? What is it in my brain that made me bore straight through 100% and not leave a little wiggle room for adjustment?

    I'm a bit mentally drained and my emotions got the better of me tonight (bastard esfj is good at that) but I guess I want to hear peoples theories of why INTJ are considered the most confident type.

    ps I'm tired and don't know how this post has come across, please feel free to flame me if I anger you, I need a good slap at the moment I feel
    Why are INTJ's so confident all the time? Some people call it 'arrogance'........but I just call it INTJ charm.

    And ENTP would have never had that problem.........not the being wrong part, but the admitting it. Even if we were wrong, we'd confuse the issue until the other person forgot what the original issue was anyway.
    No friend ever served me, and no enemy ever wronged me, whom I have not repaid in full." Lucius Cornelius Sulla

  6. #6
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    OP:

    You've got flatmate?


    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  7. #7
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    As for a serious answer to the original post...

    Well... It's because we know a lot and 90% of the time others are wrong.
    The times we are actually wrong...
    Well... Everyone is wrong sometimes. We're usually not wrong often enough to be used to it.
    That's why we're confident. But it's at least better than always second-guessing everything and looking insecure.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    As for a serious answer to the original post...

    Well... It's because we know a lot and 90% of the time others are wrong.
    The times we are actually wrong...
    Well... Everyone is wrong sometimes. We're usually not wrong often enough to be used to it.
    That's why we're confident. But it's at least better than always second-guessing everything and looking insecure.
    I have a good friend who is an INTJ........who has always been used to never being wrong or losing an argument........until he met me. At first he considered it infuriating, but he's gotten used to it, and finds my perspective helps him avoid what little errors he did have, especially when it comes to people.
    No friend ever served me, and no enemy ever wronged me, whom I have not repaid in full." Lucius Cornelius Sulla

  9. #9
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    We're watching you, jesus.

    I'd say the confidence is procedural. The auxiliary function is a workhorse, and it's meant to tend to and nurture likely intuitions. So, more or less, whenever an INTJ starts speaking pretty much no one except the INTJ is aware of what's really at stake, that intuition. And mostly what follows is an attempt to present it in a way that shows that intuition to be actionable. Also since the goal is less truth per se and more the creation of real stuff, there's a lot of different ways of getting at that intuition, lots of different realisations. What's more, that intuition is highly unlikely to be random. It conceivably has years worth of background behind it. Ergo, the appearance in the INTJ of considerable confidence. What it really is, seems to me, is a specific set of priorities.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  10. #10
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    Maybe it's what Silly Sapienne said in another thread; maybe Ni is a masturbatory function.

    Seriously though I don't tend to think of Te as flexible. That might have something to do with it.

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