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  1. #11
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    So Ne is a whorish function?
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  2. #12
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    Being wrong makes me stronger

  3. #13
    Senior Member Hendo Barbarosa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    maybe Ni is a masturbatory function.
    Drop the "maybe" and you're golden.

    This kind of thing happens to me all the time, I've only been able to get myself to the point where I concede to the point despite ALL of my instinct telling me not to. I think a lot of our intuition comes from challenging existing information and thought processes, so if we're met with an inability, whether through lack of mental resources or otherwise (which everyone can experience) to challenge someone else's argument, we experience this kind of feeling.

    I had a very close ENFP friend of mine, who once said something to the effect of "you know, I've realized in my life that I just discover and learn a lot more when I'm willing to admit to my own ignorance at times". I admired her so much for this philosophy that I attempt to this day to experiment with it.

    it's pretty fucking hard to do.

  4. #14
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6.4 View Post
    Just spent about 4 hours debating with my esfj flatmate about something work related. I had a statement, he disagreed with it. I'm coming from a purely theoretical angle as usual and he's coming from his own existential angle as per. I know he's coming at me from the wrong direction anyway but he eventually stumbled onto a statement/example that I had no reply for. It completely through a spanner in my works. I think I might just be tired but he might have a valid point which would mean my starting statement was wrong :steam:

    This has happened before a few times. It's an annoyance...

    Why the fuck are we INTJs so confident all the time? Why was I so sure that I didn't see there might be a chink in my argument? What is it in my brain that made me bore straight through 100% and not leave a little wiggle room for adjustment?

    I'm a bit mentally drained and my emotions got the better of me tonight (bastard esfj is good at that) but I guess I want to hear peoples theories of why INTJ are considered the most confident type.

    ps I'm tired and don't know how this post has come across, please feel free to flame me if I anger you, I need a good slap at the moment I feel
    Yeah I used to get this "blow to my ego" when younger (I still get pangs of it now and again) if I was ever wrong in argument.

    I would just say, don't worry about it, what matters is what you do in the world, your intelligence is useful only in the sense that it is of service to that. I learnt that being proved wrong sometimes is inevitable if you are living in the realw orld trying to implement your views, and that is something to be proud of. Now I jsut see things like that as a learning experience so that I won't make the same mistake next time. With your Ni-Te I'm sure you know what I mean.

    PS I have the issue too of not checking up all the facts sometimes, it's a weakness N's have, so after a few embarrassments, I now have learnt to be more cautious before I make "certain" claims. Though I still do it now and again, but each mistake I get cauhgt out on, just reminds me of this danger, so usually if it happens in an "irrelevant" setting that doesn't fuck up the things that are really important, I'm thankful for the "dry run".
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  5. #15
    Ruler of the Stars Asterion's Avatar
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    You can't get attached to your argument, or you'll never be able to let go of it when you suddenly find out that you're wrong. It's probably natural for NTPs to do this.
    5 3 9

  6. #16
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King-Of-Despair View Post
    You can't get attached to your argument, or you'll never be able to let go of it when you suddenly find out that you're wrong. It's probably natural for NTPs to do this.
    Hmmm, I've seen a lot of NTP's get attached to their arguments to be honest.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Ultimatly. The truth of the matter is probably that the ESFJ was so annoyed with you he tried to look for an excuse to refute you and accidentally found it. You don't argue for 4 hours if you can solve it in a second with a single arguement. Unless you were not aware of that arguement up until four hours in. He was bluffing. :P
    Yeah this was pretty much what happened. He's one of those people that sees an argument as a competition, not as a chance to learn. He was thinking out loud and his primary goal was to knock some confidence out of me and he stumbled upon a way to do that.

    I promised myself to never argue with him because I can't ever change his mind and nothing constructive is ever achieved.

    He hasn't really won me over; I'm still right, I've convinced everyone else apart from him. Funnily enough, me listing names of people who've agreed with me caused him to back off a little. I was destined to come away angry but such is life. I need to argue with someone sometimes and he's the only person in close proximity suitable at the moment. I have to ignore the rule of 'argue with a fool and from a distance an outsider can't tell who the real fool is'.


    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    OP:

    You've got flatmate?
    One of my goals in life is to live in my own flat. Unfortunately that takes money which I don't have so have to live with others.





    For the record, I have no problem admitting I'm wrong, sometimes it's hard, sometimes it's easy. It depends on who you apologising to. I personally don't need people apologising outloud to me as long as I can tell deep down they are sorry.

    I know I can be wrong especially when it involves human motivation and feeling. I often negate the emotions that makes humans (including myself) act irrational which makes some systems I propose irrelevant.

    I mean I can be proven wrong 999 times in a row, but I will be back with my 1000th theory with as much force as my first. I won't stop, I won't be quiet, I won't tire and I won't give up.

    I do consider myself confident. I know and accept that there are people who are smarter than I can dream. People who are better than me in every way, physically, spiritually and morally, probably a fair few reading this now, yet I wouldn't change anything about me. The whole world can insult, laugh at and demean me but you can never make me feel that I don't have as much a right to speak and exist as anyone else. I believe this goes for anyone, I consider all equal and will fight for that principal till my heart finally gives in. I can die a hero or never be remembered, it doesn't matter to me, as long as I tried to influence my surroundings in the way I felt best, as long as I contributed no matter how small or large.

    However, all that macho shit up there^ is personal to me and is brought about through my life experiences. I think when descriptions talk about confidence in INTJs they mean how confident we are in our theories. I don't know why this is (not sure it's worth my energy to find out). Probably something to do with seeing the big picture and seeing that all the interrelated factions point in a certain direction. What's in the direction is what's sought and it's hard not to be confident when you can see where all roads lead to.

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