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[ENTP] ENTPs & Sensory Detail

fill

"Everything in its place"
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So how does this work? Or does it work at all?

I'll explain: I've been put in an English class this semester. My professor wants me to write a descriptive essay with mainly sensory detail. The goal was four to five pages. I have one page. I suck at detail. So badly. I really don't think she'll buy me explaining MBTI, "Uh... look, if you saw my list of cognitive functions, you'd see Se and Si are the lowest, and... oh, I've received an F?"

I've never had difficulty doing something in this way before because I almost feel incapable of doing it. I could hardly tell you what I did last week- I'm so focused on the present moment and the future, but I'll take very small bits of my past that I think I can learn from- but that's about all. I can't go on describing what has happened in great detail.

How can I cope with this? Or pass this class?

P.S. - This is me last night trying to write the paper:
DPL_PXl.jpg
 

Shimmy

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How can I cope with this? Or pass this class?

Click.

On a more serious note, your skills can become better with practice. You may suck at it now, but if you just sit down and write the piece it'll be easier the next time you do something similar.
 

theadoor

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Well it's not that bad. When I concentrate I can write some really good sensory essays because of my Ne, i just have to spend a lot of time on it. Don't expect it to come easy, but it's definitely not impossible. I usually receive A for that kind of tasks, but I must admit, it's usually short essays or stories 1-2 typed pages long.
My advice, I'm totally not so naturally good at writing essays, but I usually get some pretty nice marks for them- here's my advice how I do it:
1) at first write a plan of the structure, write down what you're gonna talk about in each paragraph
2) if it's more like a description write down describing qualities
3) then make at least 3 different ways (synonyms, personifications or metaphors) to write basically the same thing.
4) write the text and insert the qualities.
 
T

ThatGirl

Guest
Just let your mind wander like this...

I was walking down the path. "Oh look! A flower."

The flower is red and lavender with pointed petals. Upon closer examination I noticed the small insect located on the sprigs of pollen so delicately situated in the center.

It stop and wonder. Here we see two forms of life coexisting in one form. Which is the supportive structure......


Pretend your brain is a microscope. At each magnification zoom in one more layer. Shouldn't be hard.
 

Mad Hatter

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Use your Ne and try to find some metaphors/similies etc., make comparisons and stuff. You can make them quite elaborate i.e. fluff it up (which probably goes against your grain). - I guess some English teachers will love that (no matter how stupid it looks to you).
TGs approach is quite good. Just try to find a structure (or rather a beginning - I think that's the hardest part), and the rest will more or less fall into place.
What's the topic of your essay (or have you found one yet)?
 

Katsuni

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Believe it or not, I used to be incredibly concise, to the point that it was ridiculously difficult to meet the requested length due to having details cut down to just the most important ones.

Then I did alot of forum debating... people would ask for clarification on something that was obvious... but never read anything past the first post. So I'd have all these clarifications later on but noone would see it so it meant nothing.

As such, over time, I grew more and more descriptive, adding in every possible conceivable answer to any question anyone could have, and then some. Yeu know how an entp's wandering mind can go just about anywhere... well I started writing all that down.

Now, I can do quite alot.

One thing I did once, which may help yeu more directly in this matter, was more of a joke of 'proof' that more detail sucks... I wrote several pages worth describing... someone walking through a door.

The point was to prove that it's possible to waste that much space on something so simple. Try doing this, covering everything from the grain of the wood, the fact that a chip that looks like it was added during installation indicates a cheap install contractor, that the shiny doorknob looks like it was added within a few weeks ago, the sound of the doorbell, the dread of the person before the door opens, flashback of memory to why they don't want to be at that door, it opening, a vague descriptionless (important) of whot's on the other side, something either light and inviting, or dark and foreboding, it doesn't matter, just don't give away WHOT is on the other side just hint at it.

Add all those sorts of details and yeu'll learn quickly how to pad an idea.
 

miss fortune

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oooh... I enjoy using my senses! Smelling things, tasting things and touching things are near the top of my list of priorities :shock:

I generally find, however, that I'm rather unable to describe these things in writing- though my 4 year long streak of writers block may have something to do with that

I'd suggest keeping a notebook on you and when you experience things write down a few notes- or if you're like me and never remember to bring things with you, borrow a pen from someone and write on any surface! :)
 

fill

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On a more serious note, your skills can become better with practice. You may suck at it now, but if you just sit down and write the piece it'll be easier the next time you do something similar.

That they will, but I feel I'm being rushed to the point where I can't learn these skills quickly enough to succeed.

make shit up

I was going to, but I'd rather be honest. I love cheating- but I also love challenges. Such is the dilemma of my life. :laugh:

Pretend your brain is a microscope. At each magnification zoom in one more layer. Shouldn't be hard.

I like this. I'll try to apply it.

Use your Ne and try to find some metaphors/similies etc., make comparisons and stuff. You can make them quite elaborate i.e. fluff it up (which probably goes against your grain). - I guess some English teachers will love that (no matter how stupid it looks to you).

Yeah this is what I usually do, but I can tell this isn't what she's looking for, and I feel I'd only be docked points for it; do I write a four page paper that's 75% bullshit or a one page paper 100% gospel?

The point was to prove that it's possible to waste that much space on something so simple. Try doing this, covering everything from the grain of the wood, the fact that a chip that looks like it was added during installation indicates a cheap install contractor, that the shiny doorknob looks like it was added within a few weeks ago, the sound of the doorbell, the dread of the person before the door opens, flashback of memory to why they don't want to be at that door, it opening, a vague descriptionless (important) of whot's on the other side, something either light and inviting, or dark and foreboding, it doesn't matter, just don't give away WHOT is on the other side just hint at it.

Add all those sorts of details and yeu'll learn quickly how to pad an idea.

This is very helpful! I never really understood the process of turning minute detail into conclusions using Ne. I'm making lots of sense of this.

oooh... I enjoy using my senses! Smelling things, tasting things and touching things are near the top of my list of priorities :shock:

I generally find, however, that I'm rather unable to describe these things in writing- though my 4 year long streak of writers block may have something to do with that

I'd suggest keeping a notebook on you and when you experience things write down a few notes- or if you're like me and never remember to bring things with you, borrow a pen from someone and write on any surface! :)

Me too! I'm always jotting down conclusions and a metaphorical argument that leads to it; and I also have, like you do/did, a hard time explaining my senses on paper. I've never understood how to "put the reader in the moment." Even short stories I've written are very vague in describing their environment. For example, if a part in the book takes place in a plaza, I'll simply put, "So-and-so walked through the plaza" and leave the rest up to their imagination. To me, describing the sense details in a story impairs the objectivity of the material as the reader puts connotations through the senses. If I write, "As they sat in the room, the three men looked at Jon intimidatingly," this room has no personality, and the reader gives it such; however, if I write, "As they sat in the dark, dingy room, the three men looked at Jon in his intimidatingly," I feel I'm limiting the reader's imagination- or maybe I'm simply giving them a clearer picture. I can easily see how someone would completely disagree with me on this issue.
 

the state i am in

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i have the same problem currently. as an Ni dom, how the fuck am i supposed to, rather than synthesizing the ideas i am interested in, focus on "telling a story" as if some pointless anecdote will become meaningful for me. context, context, context, right?

we have to read all of these isfp spiritual writing books. and everyone seems to adore david sedaris. no thanks.
 

Matthew_Z

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Details only exist if you notice them. Once you know your focus or general theme of your observation, you know what direction the details should lead in. If the disproportionality of the world is the focus, the the sizes of various objects are what to look for. The details are supposed to "speak." Two approaches are evident from this point: know the details and find what they say, know what they're supposed to say and find the voices that are speaking.

If you don't even have a vague conception of either, then why did you even decide to start writing about this apparently impossible-to-describe world in the first place? If you have neither, rather than fabricating details, (which are more or less, objectively set) create a message(which is mostly subjective) of any sort and milk it to depletion.
 

fill

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i have the same problem currently. as an Ni dom, how the fuck am i supposed to, rather than synthesizing the ideas i am interested in, focus on "telling a story" as if some pointless anecdote will become meaningful for me. context, context, context, right?

we have to read all of these isfp spiritual writing books. and everyone seems to adore david sedaris. no thanks.

Ahaha, you've made my night.

Details only exist if you notice them. Once you know your focus or general theme of your observation, you know what direction the details should lead in. If the disproportionality of the world is the focus, the the sizes of various objects are what to look for. The details are supposed to "speak." Two approaches are evident from this point: know the details and find what they say, know what they're supposed to say and find the voices that are speaking.

I find this very interesting. I've not thought this before.

If you don't even have a vague conception of either, then why did you even decide to start writing about this apparently impossible-to-describe world in the first place? If you have neither, rather than fabricating details, (which are more or less, objectively set) create a message(which is mostly subjective) of any sort and milk it to depletion.

I believe the world can be described, but I have a very difficult time describing something by strict, "sensing" details. I can create an analogy or relate it to something familiar to the reader- it almost drains me to think and describe every minute detail. What kills me is that I was supposed to "observe" a sub-culture. I did, but I ended up recording things like, "just like other groups or teams that compete..." instead of, "three people sat on the lower rafters, waving their hands that suited gold gloves, while the men sang in unison..." I mean, there, I made something up- but if I'm going straight from my experience, color me screwed.
 

Asterion

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Are you sure that the teacher wants sensory details though... and not what you can gather/deduce/speculate from those details? Ne is your prefered function, but it doesn't have to be your best and only hope, you should actually be able to do it without much trouble MBTI wise. But if it's something untrained, naturally you're gonna struggle until you have some experience with it.
 

Tamske

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Ask yourself questions. Expand by the answers.

Example: my novel starts in a temple. I've given this chapter to a friend for comments. Her reaction?
"What do those statues of the gods look like? How big are they? Are they made of stone? Are you describing the statues there or are you describing the gods?"
Just by reading the suggestion that people might think the statues were of stone, I realized I actually had a very detailed image of those statues and I had to write it down if I wanted the people to get the image right!
They were made of wood, and painted in bright colours, and clothed in fine clothes in bright colours clashing with the paint, and with all sorts of sparkly things sewed unto them until they looked like an overdecorated Christmas tree, and...
... and actually they looked exactly like the statues of the saints I've seen in Bolivia five years ago...

Ask someone else what mental image they get from your description. It will strike you as wrong and you'll realize that actually you know much more details than you've written down.

You know the details but they aren't important to you. You don't see reason why it would matter whether the statues of the gods were made of stone or of wood. Until someone gets a picture of a very serene temple with simple stone statues while you wanted the temple to be gaudy, sparkly and colourful.

At least, that's how it works for me. I hope this has been helpful.
 

sculpting

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My entp can remember every detail of past convos word by word. It is odd. She is much more verbal memory it seems than me. However she said she cannot remember past sensations. I realized I cannot either.

However I can imagine future touch-taste-smell sensations and some visual sensations. She can imagine visual-auditory future sensations very well.

maybe dont try and remember something from the past-instead imagine something?
 

Tamske

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I can't recall images directly. However, I'm very good at recalling them indirectly. It seems my Si is filled to the brim with all sorts of images, sounds, tastes, smells and textures... only to get mixed up whenever I'm imagining something.
I've described an old library in great detail, only to realize afterwards that I've mixed up the books from a real old library, the globes from a museum (adapted to represent the imaginary world), the roof from a theatre, the architecture probably from some lecture hall... Don't ask me how that real old library looked like.
 

Gamine

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I had to do something similar for a creative writing class I took. It scared the beejeebers out of me. I ended up building a structure to cope with it:

Step One: Pick a thing
Step Two: Go through senses in order of imporatance for that thing (sight, sense, taste, touch, sound) and describe them on that level first, like a list
Step Three: Make some fancy stuff up to fluff it to fill the work requirement
Step Four: Slip in some jokes or satyrical comments to distract from the bullshit
Step Five: Drink some more coffee, the paper still isn't long enough! It sounds so touchy-feely too
Step Six: After spending more time procrastinating, decide to stick with touchy-feely and dry humour because I have other important things to do, like napping or not thinking about the paper
Step Seven: Get the paper back after a time lapse of 5 times as long as it took me to forget I wrote the paper
Step Eight: Rejoice! My prof likes my tone and enjoyed the different unique perceptions, takes them seriously (while I was giggling like a looney writing them, tearing up at the ridiculousness of the writing)
Step Nine: Forget everything again until a thread pops up on TypeC
 

tinkerbell

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Well I still pick up sensory information, I enjoy smells and sounds and feels - I just don't tend to want to write about them.

I'd be tempted to cheat a bit, and write what I wanted to write, then go back and lace references to my 5 sences... but I suspect your teacher wants you to think about expereincing the actual moment, in order to provide a richer experience for the reader.

I don't tent to like reading too much detail when I read either, but I do like a certain amoutn of detail.

If you want an odd reading experience try a novel form Banana Yoshimoto some of them are pretty odd topics however they read like an orchid
 

teslashock

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I know you say that you think your professor doesn't want "fluff" in your descriptive essay, but metaphors and similes are not fluff according to most writers. Incorporating metaphors and similes is a standard method and one of the major ways that we can make writing creative. Metaphors are as cardinal to writing as a spices are to Indian cuisine. Compare x to y, and make x and y be completely different things, but compare them in a way that makes sense and that makes the details and meaning of x even clearer. Any given novel is wrought with metaphors; just open up to a descriptive paragraph and you'll see this.

Readers don't want you to tell them what a rug feels like or how a sunset looks; any given audience already knows this. Readers want you to describe the physical characteristics on a deeper level, a way that makes them view something differently, or in a way that makes them realize something novel about whatever it is you're describing, and metaphors are a great way of doing this. Metaphors are ketchup for your fries, telescopes for viewing the stars, a colorful scarf to liven up an otherwise plain outfit; they make your writing more personal and your descriptions even more appealing to the senses.
 

fill

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Are you sure that the teacher wants sensory details though... and not what you can gather/deduce/speculate from those details? Ne is your prefered function, but it doesn't have to be your best and only hope, you should actually be able to do it without much trouble MBTI wise. But if it's something untrained, naturally you're gonna struggle until you have some experience with it.

Yes, I'm very sure. We read example essays to guide us, and they were mostly comprise of, "I thought this. This happened. I asked this. I was answered this," instead of, "Because of this, I think that this is like this, which can be seen in this." I mean, we can make the essay subjective, but isn't that sort of dishonest- wouldn't I be required to omit certain details for the gain of my own opinion? And if I hardly have any detail, why omit any of it? Such would only make my paper shorter. I think the only way I could be subjective is to rant or praise my subject. ... I may just have to. I hate cheating- I really wish I could be graded for honesty.

maybe dont try and remember something from the past-instead imagine something?

I would love to, but she wants real data.

I had to do something similar for a creative writing class I took. It scared the beejeebers out of me. I ended up building a structure to cope with it:

I really like this. I may follow the steps- maybe modify them a bit, too.

I'd be tempted to cheat a bit, and write what I wanted to write, then go back and lace references to my 5 sences... but I suspect your teacher wants you to think about expereincing the actual moment, in order to provide a richer experience for the reader.

Yeah, this is exactly what she wants- unfortunately these moments don't exist.

I know you say that you think your professor doesn't want "fluff" in your descriptive essay, but metaphors and similes are not fluff according to most writers. Incorporating metaphors and similes is a standard method and one of the major ways that we can make writing creative. Metaphors are as cardinal to writing as a spices are to Indian cuisine. Compare x to y, and make x and y be completely different things, but compare them in a way that makes sense and that makes the details and meaning of x even clearer. Any given novel is wrought with metaphors; just open up to a descriptive paragraph and you'll see this.

Readers don't want you to tell them what a rug feels like or how a sunset looks; any given audience already knows this. Readers want you to describe the physical characteristics on a deeper level, a way that makes them view something differently, or in a way that makes them realize something novel about whatever it is you're describing, and metaphors are a great way of doing this. Metaphors are ketchup for your fries, telescopes for viewing the stars, a colorful scarf to liven up an otherwise plain outfit; they make your writing more personal and your descriptions even more appealing to the senses.

I like this a lot, too. Yeah; I might just do this- I just feel I'm giving the reader some sort of connotation subconsciously. I'll do this often; I describe something to someone, and they think I either do or do not like this something, when I really don't have an opinion on it at all- are there twitches in my face or something? And how does this work on paper?
 
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