User Tag List

123 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 34

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Posts
    473

    Default NT preference for semantic-based arguments

    I don't understand where this behavior comes from. Is it because they've spent so much time around people that this works on? What is the best way to respond so that the argument can be settled without stooping to the same level? Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    Senior Member groovejet02's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    199

    Default

    Example please

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Posts
    473

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by groovejet02 View Post
    Example please
    Semantic dispute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    That explains it a bit more. To put it in my own words, it is when someone attempts to focus the argument on word meaning rather than what is actually being described. I try to steer the argument back onto what is being said not how we are saying it, but they will steer around me with more semantics and nothing gets accomplished.

  4. #4
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6
    Posts
    1,690

    Default

    It's a Ti thing. Ti has this overwhelming desire to make sure that all aspects of the system (the argument) are clear/known beyond a reasonable doubt. If somebody interprets an aspect of the Ti-er's argument in a way that does not align with the Ti-er's true intentions, then Ti will bludgeon that interpretation to death, by showing semantically and logically, that the interpretation is unfounded, in a (some times rather desperate) attempt to discredit the opposing position.

  5. #5
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    5,554

    Default

    This sounds a lot more like NTPs than NTJs. NTJs are usually annoyed with people that they see as spending too much time focusing on arbitrary definitional precision (this is one thing they tend to dislike about NTPs.)

    Anyway, the people you're arguing with in these cases probably are not intentionally steering the conversation into semantics just for the sake of frustrating you. NTPs tend to insist on this sort of precision (many would describe it as nitpicking) because we're very keenly aware of subtle differences in shades of meaning. When you use one word but we can tell from context that you meant something that that word doesn't actually mean, we want to correct you because we feel that misinterpretation of each other's ideas is inevitable if you don't know the right words to properly convey the ideas you're trying to express.

    The miscommunication usually happens when someone uses the wrong word or wrong shade of meaning, and when you do this NTPs will often focus on correcting your terminology even though we're able to intuit what it is that you actually meant to say. Ironically, you see this as us "ignoring what's actually being said", but in reality we're often more aware of what you actually said than you are. We realize that you said something that doesn't align with what you actually intended to say and we want to clear up this misunderstanding so we can communicate more effectively with you.

    What you want us to do is to focus on what you meant, but we find it difficult to discuss anything meaningfully until the terminology is defined clearly and precisely, which doesn't happen if there's a disconnect between your idea of the terminology and ours.

    We're generally not doing this just to annoy you, but rather because we insist on having a common language defined before any meaningful discussion can occur.

    From your perspective, you may not understand the difference between the terms you're using and the terms we're asking you to use instead, so it looks like we're ignoring your point and focusing on errors in your wording instead. Admittedly, we do this sometimes when we could just intuit what you meant based on context and adjust our responses to it, but again, we don't like having formal discussions until we're both on the same page about the terms we're using and their precise shades of meaning.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  6. #6
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6
    Posts
    1,690

    Default

    Wait, Circle, what do you mean when you say "stooping to the same level"? Do you mean to imply that arguments based on semantics are some how inherently inferior to your own contentions? Or do you mean to imply that you're personally turned off by such arguments? Or do you think that people who make such arguments are just plain stupid for not getting the general idea prior to [over]analyzing the details?

    I'm going to need some clarification before I can contribute anymore to this thread...

  7. #7
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    5,554

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by teslashock View Post
    Wait, Circle, what do you mean when you say "stooping to the same level"? Do you mean to imply that arguments based on semantics are some how inherently inferior to your own contentions? Or do you mean to imply that you're personally turned off by such arguments? Or do you think that people who make such arguments are just plain stupid for not getting the general idea prior to [over]analyzing the details?

    I'm going to need some clarification before I can contribute anymore to this thread...
    He thinks NTs (presumably NTPs in this case) are ignoring what he said and focusing on correcting his terminology just to be pedantic.

    I won't deny that we revel in some degree of pedantry at times, but usually the purpose is clarification of terms for the sake of clearer and more effective communication--not just nitpicking for the sake of annoying people.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  8. #8
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6
    Posts
    1,690

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    He thinks NTs (presumably NTPs in this case) are ignoring what he said and focusing on correcting his terminology just to be pedantic.

    I won't deny that we revel in some degree of pedantry at times, but usually the purpose is clarification of terms for the sake of clearer and more effective communication--not just nitpicking for the sake of annoying people.
    What about for the sake of lighthearted tomfoolery?

  9. #9
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    5,554

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by teslashock View Post
    What about for the sake of lighthearted tomfoolery?
    Depends on who you do it to. I find that NTJs have little patience for this, as they consider it a trivial waste of time.

    STPs will probably wipe that smug grin right off your face with a swift right hook to the left temple, though.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  10. #10
    Branded with Satan murkrow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    1,635

    Default

    NTs aren't trying to start semantic arguments.

    We listen to the words you say to us and then respond to their meaning.
    wails from the crypt.

Similar Threads

  1. [NT] Music preferances for NT's in general
    By Katsuni in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 45
    Last Post: 10-14-2009, 01:10 PM
  2. [MBTItm] Do you ever get "hungry" for a good argument?
    By ygolo in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 61
    Last Post: 04-19-2009, 12:31 AM
  3. Cognitive functions & preference for quiet or not so quiet study environments
    By Usehername in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 11-02-2008, 03:16 PM
  4. [NT] what NTs look for in a potential mate
    By GirlAmerica in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 135
    Last Post: 08-17-2008, 10:36 PM
  5. [NT] NT tips for lasting relationship
    By sakuraba in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 02-13-2008, 11:32 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO